Just the usual skepticism…
That comes comes along with any new boat, but especially one that claims to do it all. I think most of us agree that all new boat introductions are a good thing, and we wish Old Town well with thiis one. Personally, I think this boat will do well. Add a couple of people camping and fishing to the ad, and the response on this site would probably be different.
To be clear…
None of my original comments have anything to do with the physical boat. I tend to reserve that feedback until I can actually handle and paddle a new hull. My question and comments refer only to the claims of uniqueness the NEXT offers. What’s unique about it is it’s really the first one made out of Poly. And that’s it. The design and features are similar to so many hulls already on the water. I also stated that the marketing strength of Old Town will expose this category to many who are not familiar with the pack canoe or can’t afford $2000+. This inevitably will create future customers who will upgrade into higher end hulls…same as recreational canoes and kayaks are to their higher end versions. Ironically, and someone at Old Town can correct me if I’m wrong, the designer of the NEXT was on the design team at Confluence (Mad River, Wave Sport, Wilderness, Dagger, and Perception) and responsible for the development of the Mad River Canoe Serenade series of canoes. http://www.madrivercanoe.com/product_subcategory/index/products/versatile/serenade_mrc/ To quote the Mad River copy on the Serenade, “This hybrid solo canoe merges the best attributes of a canoe with the best attributes of a kayak.” And they do call it a canoe. I do like the fact that the designer has incorporated more tumblehome in the NEXT, but this is not the designers first time around the lake on this either.
My comments simply reflect the feelings of any overly passionate boater who’s had some skin in the game for a while. I tried to keep my mouth shut, but alas, I couldn’t. I’m certain my friends and associates at Old Town might wonder why I chose to put this out here. The way I read it, if you’re going to make the claims that they do in their marketing on the NEXT, you need to be able to back it up. Also, I knew this thread would generate this type of discussion (yes Pnetters, you’re very predictable) which is giving the NEXT more attention here then it would have gotten otherwise. There is some method to my angst.
As I’ve also previously stated, I hope they sell a ton of NEXTs…a new pack canoe from Old Town ; )
But you can get a matching paddle!
– Last Updated: Oct-05-14 9:52 AM EST –
I'm glad you made that point. I was going to earlier but was afraid that it would be stating the bleeding obvious.
Yes, designer Bob McDonough has quite a history, both designing boats and competing. Here is a press release from Johnson Outdoor a couple of years back when Bob was hired:
http://outdoorindustry.org/news/industry.php?newsId=17564
And this thread covers some of Bob's competitive history:
http://boatertalk.com/forum/SurfZone/1052468262
Back in the day, Bob was the head designer for Perception's whitewater kayaks. He had one or two rodeo moves, such as the "McTwist" named after him. He did "product testing" and rodeo practice on the Ocoee River in east Tennessee sometimes at "Hell Hole" and I remember him ferrying his little dog across river on the deck of the boat. The dog would sit on the rocks and watch him play in the hole and work on moves. His hair was darker then, and I seem to recall a mustache:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Qpv4H9xRWCA/UL3cHDJK0ZI/AAAAAAAALJU/OOqjwqRX4ss/s1600/Bob+Mc+Donough.jpg
Florida!
They just may open up the market for pack canoes in Florida. I own two now (my beloved adorable Vermont Tupper, and a Hornbeck), and they always get a lot of attention from rec kayakers until I’m asked how much they cost. When they learn that my pretty pack canoes that weigh 25 and 13 lbs respectively are around $2000, they paddle away in their Dick’s $159 specials, wondering why on earth anyone would spend that much. At least there will now be a pack canoe down here that potential buyers can see and experience.
That the Next is a poly boat means it can go some places I wouldn’t risk my more fragile pack canoes; oyster shells, rocks, etc. I have a Hurricane Skimmer 128 for those places. It weighs about the same as the Next. Would I trade it for a poly canoe? No. My SOT is self bailing, has dry storage, and is fun to paddle and safer on more open water than the Next would be.
You guys who make ultra-lightweight pack canoes need to get a few demoes going down here in central Florida—they are really so perfect for most of the places I paddle.
the placid guy isn’t gonna like that
remember the gift horse
You’re asking the boat be marketed a certain way. But the manufacturer probably believes they’ll have more success this way. How would you have marketed this boat differently?
Maybe you think they’re being less than honest, but you both have the same ends: to get more people into the sport.
But…
There’s a difference between marketing something and pretending you invented it. OT did not invent the pack canoe, but they’re essentially claiming they did. That rubs fact-based, history-minded people the wrong way, myself included. It has nothing to do with the boat itself, what it looks like or what it’s for.
I agree that the boat might be good for the sport in general, and I have nothing against entry-level, heavy plastic versions of better craft. I’m thinking it may do well.
I was in engineering school with someone who believed he’d invented a new engine cycle, named it after himself and presented it as his senior design project. However, he had merely ‘rediscovered’ the Sterling Cycle. His ignorance of the past was not sufficient justification for (even unknowingly) plagiarizing previous work, and he suffered some mild but deserved consequences. The fact that the OT marketing team is ignoring or is ignorant of the long history of pack canoes is similarly annoying.
ok
How many pack canoes are sold today?
Maybe they’re “re-marketing” the pack canoe.
I wonder if manufacturers of other pack canoes will pick up the gauntlet in terms of marketing and advertising.
Same here
I have no problem with the boat itself, only the marketing, which is deceptive.
Deceptive?
I don’t read anything in OT’s NEXT ad copy that suggests that so-called pack or small canoes are something new. They do suggest their implementation is unique. And it somewhat is, in terms of triple dump poly construction, bright colors and a modern cushioned sling seat with seatback.
However, I think it is deceptive to market the weight without the seat, presumably to get it under the 50 lb. barrier. But dimensional inaccuracy or deception is not unique to just one canoe manufacturer. Other pack canoes suffer these same issues.
The seat
I forgot to mention the seat. One of the things I would want is the option to put in a different seat. That said, the one that will be with the Next is the same seat OT uses in at least one of their SOT’s. I sat in one this week, and I find it very comfortable, just like you’d expect in a SOT.
As for the marketing of this boat, it’s advertising. Of course it’s a, uhh, different take on the facts. That’s how they generate buzz. Seems to be working - any publicity is good publicity.
Doubt Joe and co even care
they have a new building and things are good. Old Town or no Old Town.
I remember that.
I think I was 11 years old, and saw it in “Outdoor Life”. For a long time, I thought Old Town canoes must surely be the best. At that age and not knowing anything, at least it was a reason to believe there was something better than Coleman.
Is the hull made from Polylink 3 like
the Otter?