I didn’t know Tony posted here - but back in the day there were enough open boat posts that I wouldn’t have bothered with the sea kayak stuff. Tony is still out and about.
I’ve been out with him twice. I should take advantage and do it again sometime.
Glad to know that Tony is healthy and active still in RI. Here is Tony (Tsunami X-15) in a thread about surfing kayaks back in '04:
sing
That explains it - in 2004 I was just getting started and didn’t even know Tony then. Surprising how many names from that post are still around. I was paddling with Tony in his 20’ long Tsunami X-2 double in the video above.
Now that we have totally highjacked this post - sorry MoultonAvery.
Yes and no. The reason Tony/Tsunami X-15 came up is to illustrate how discussions about what is the “proper” seakayaking, immersion gear and practices can devolve, especially when folks take “absolute” stances/dogma about their own practices as the “one and only” way. Tony burnt out on PNet because his approach was outside of the “mainstream” then (but actually much aligned with Eric Soares about boat and immersion gear). In the linked thread I offered, you can see that I was still in the SINK and drysuit camp (Although not in the “absolutist” type way). Now, I am actually more in the SOT and wetsuit camp, in so far as it pertains to my own preferred type of paddling venue.
So, we see often enough how the best of intentions can quickly “go to hell” by the reactions from both ends of the experience spectrum. Tony did the most “impactful” and sane thing (for him) by getting out of PNet discussions and back to paddling/sharing/coaching in the varied ocean paddling venues of RI. Good for him that he is still paddling and sharing with passion.
sing
30" waves in shallow water can be a lot rougher than 8’ waves in deep water. Wave height isn’t the most significant measurement.
Sorry if I upset some people. Jyak is a very confusing type of poster to me. On the one hand he talks about things like “Danger can be appealing.” Crossing Chesapeake Bay is far from adventurous. In other words some boastful talk.
Then he talks about 30 inch waves. He may be a comedian. He may be 18 years old. He may be an older guy that lacks experience, but his posts make no sense to me at all.
Ppine I read your comment and interpreted it as encouragement. I appreciate your enthusiasm, and agree that I need to get out more. Although I’ve been paddling open waters for many years, I rate myself as a novice, due to limited technical skills. Consequently, I’m cautious in matching my paddling environment to my level of expertice.
I resemble your remarks and tend toward clown. I’m actually 70 yrs old. I don’t make things up. When I say the Bay isn’t adventurous, I’m comparing the conditions to the waters some members paddle. I wouldn’t consider 30 inch waves a boast, when some members post videos of riding through waves over 6 feet tall. I don’t roll and don’t use a skirt. I probably said when I see or anticipate 30 inches, I turn around. I have defended the speed a Tsunami is capable of achieving when members have characterized the Pungo and Tsunami as slow. That wasn’t bragging. It was fact.
On a serious note, extensive exploration of the upper Chesapeake Bay gave me an intimate knowledge of the conditions that enable me to confidently travel the region. Thus, I don’t go out when conditions get adventurous. When I weighed 255 lbs, my 145 Tsunami handled 30 inch waves and more, but beyond that height, occasionally waves would breach the cockpit from the rear quarters. After I dropped to 230 lbs, I found that I could take on higher waves, but I still use the same criteria when paddling. Once winds of a given speed and direction are present, it becomes a battle to overcome conditions rather than enjoy the trip. I don’t think you’ll find any posts about me boasting about skill. I do know the upper Bay, and you will find my comments where I say I wouldn’t venture into the lower bay below North Point, the entrance to Baltimore harbor.
A few newer members seemed unsure about learning to read the water. There are many resources that can aid in learning about how a body of water is influenced by gravity, the earth’s rotation, currents, water temperature, river flow, geographic features, and interaction of fresh vs. salt water. One reference I found indispensable for anyone traveling open water is a book written by David Burch, “Fundamentals of Kayak Navigation.”
He examines the forces that move water as well as how the forces impact paddling the boat. I’m sure there are books with more details, but this reference covers “fundamentals” that are practical, as well as clearly explained and illustrated. Understanding the fundamentals helps in understanding why conditions in one location can be so vastly different than a spot that’s around a corner and 200 yards away. Knowing the conditions where I clear a point of land telegraphs what to expect a mile further, and what to anticipate anywhere between 15 minutes and 6 hours later.
Another option is to take advantage of the shared experience offered by members with advanced skills. Enroll in classes to improve your confidence.
I am pretty sure you are far from a novice Jyak! You are quite knowledgeable. Intermediate tends to be the stage many people achieve and stay at for a long time with any pursuit. I feel that way about guitar playing and golfing despite starting young with both. Nothing wrong with this and more of a reflection of how I choose to spend my time, i.e. not doing something for Gladwell’s 10,000 hours for whatever reason.
I looked back a little way and found the “Danger can be Appealing” is a direct response to a member surfing a six foot wave into a standing 8 ft wave. I don’t do that. I can understand confusion, but intent should be more appatent by reading my lauditory comments about actual “experienced” members. I’m confident that researching my comments will find more praise of other kayakers and their skill than you’ll find me boasting about my skill. I’ve also told members that my level of expertise stop at flat water and stable boats.
I can admit to everyone reading this that I am a bonafide, green as spring grass, wholehearted novice. So ye should compare to me in that regard 
Don’t compare to the other folk as much. Hopefully by year’s end I won’t be as much of a novice.
No hijack intended, none taken. It was on topic, Sing. But even if it was just a digression and a stroll down memory lane, it’s fine with me. Sometimes those are the best discussions. I didn’t know there were any X-15 kayaks that made it to the east coast, so that pic was pretty cool.
I also think that the strident orthodoxy can be really tiresome, and feel that the wetsuit / drysuit one is particularly obnoxious. I read that stuff and think “Wow, the drysuit manufacturers sure did a PR / marketing number on that one.” Seems like it’s spread largely by newer paddlers who don’t realize that we wore wetsuits long before drysuits became available. I address this in a gear article. Also in the thermal protection section of our revised website which should be live in a week or so. Hannah Ray J and friends demonstrating that in enlightened circles, wetsuits and drysuits coexist graciously…
DanielD, I do believe I’m knowledgeable, but that doesn’t elevate me above novice. I just know when to turn around - that’s knowledge. Being experienced gives you the confidence to push through the wave and anticipate more. I never grew my experience, because I figured out how far I wanted to go, and I turn around because even if I had more skill, I wouldn’t want to fight the conditions.
If you’re interested, I can show you a chart of the area and explain how to interpret the geographic location and the conditions that will create 30 inch wave in a location, even when I’m 1/2 mile from the spot.
There is no shame in being a novice. No matter what the skill happens to be - from neurosurgery to music to paddlesports, we all start at the bottom, knowing nothing. The paddlers, and especially the instructors, whom I admire the most are thoughtful, highly skilled and humble men and women who never forget what it’s like to be a beginner, and who never make their students feel “less than”. In fact, the first quality that I look for in assessing outdoor leadership is humility. Nothing gets you in trouble in the great outdoors faster than hubris.
Talk about clowns. I laughed when I saw the shot of a somber sing with ice dripping from him. Then I see three “smiling” faces with icicles. I have to compose myself. I thought this might be an . . . Ice breaker, but that doesn’t look like it’s melting.
Guys, you are doing a great job convincing me to remain a novice. That is too much like work. I don’t mind working hard, but only when I don’t think its going to be much work. Is that why some people find my posts hard to follow. I apologize in advance.
I don’t think icicles will ever be a feature of my paddling experiences. If that’s the gateway to the land of advanced paddling, I’ll stay on the warmer side of it
Copy that, DanielD
Paddling on very cold water is far more dangerous and requires a higher degree of skill. The margin for error is far smaller, rescues are harder, and time in the water more limited. Hand protection is critical and can make all sorts of actions cumbersome. Odd things can also happen at sub-freezing temps - like having your skirt freeze to the coaming or ice starting to form on the paddle shaft, kayak, deck lines etc. These things are best discovered in benign locations. I don’t play in those environments any more because at 74, I have too much trouble keeping my hands warm - even with good gear. Circulation issues in my aging paws.
Ocean going ships have sunk in storms on the Chesapeake and there are deaths among kayakers and other people in small boats every year.
Due to its overall shallow depth the Bay is infamous for steep breaking short period waves on windy days. Some people like playing in those, but not me.
MoultonAvery, there’s a difference between humility and reality. There’s also greater virtue in understanding your limitations. My only goal in kayaking is paddling faster so I can go further. I’m satisfied with my level of skill.
DanielD. The icicles just show the level of confidence; not many have that degree of commitment.
That wasn’t directed to you personally, Jyak. It’s just my observation on the value of being humble in the face of Mother Nature’s energy. I my experience, humble paddlers tend to be more realistic and less apt to fall into the trap of overconfidence. So my view is that humility is a valuable attitude to have when engaging in outdoor recreation.
