my take also
…and since cold air has a higher relative humidity than warmer air, it also conceivably impedes “breathability”.
And on hot days I just know there is no damn way a fabric can keep up with my sweat glands.
pet peeve…
Try changing to a different undergarment if you are wet under Gore-Tex. So many people don’t wash their fleece correctly and it therefore doesn’t wick properly.
Don’t use fabric softeners, don’t use undergarments that contain large amounts of nylon (it holds water - think the bands of underpants and bras).
When you wash your fleece, the ones that are nearly dry when they come out of the wash are good to wear when you are paddling (or skiing or whatever) as they will wick properly and don’t hold water. Wear two close fitting layers so that the one has a place to wick to.
Hope this helps you.
Suz
NRS Extreme
Very popular out our way - especially in “killer bee” yellow
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2690887300094366337ciWyjr
You might even see a few in gray
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2510801710094366337FAKwOh
I bought the cheapest suit I could find.
Stohlquist white water from REI at $329. So far it works like a charm, totally dry and warm and breathes beautifully. I have had it out on 60 degree fall days, and in 20 degree winter ice flows. Also, on self rescue/ rolling days in ice flows, and twenty mile day trips. I have two regrets. First, no pee zipper(I thought it would not matter) and I will get this rememdied this summer. Second, I should have purchased from my local kayak store, they need me and I need them. I should have spent more and written it off when I got a killer deal on another boat or some sale item. After twenty five years of auto OEM supply, I have become so synical and uncaring as it relates to the buyer/seller relationship that I forgot that sometimes it does matter.
that’s very true
I stopped wearing fleece because of this.
No matter what I am wearing, how cold or warm I am in my drysuit, I sweat faster than the suit can “breathe”. And I’m not alone.
wildwater-how od you know that
– Last Updated: Mar-03-08 2:51 PM EST –
the fabric is "breathing the other way"
if the goretex is then you have a majorly bad suit.....
breathability is not something you can test for in a store by blowing on the fabric....
also it is only a one way process....
the breathability part is that your body heat forces your perspiration into water vapor....that water vapor is then driven out of the fabric by an difference in pressure and humidity (a ball always rolls down hill towards the low place).....the size water vapor that is outside the suit will not go back in....the micro pores are toooo small for it to fit.....
most likely you are just experiencing conduction heat loss via the wind that is pushing your suit material against your inner layers....
and if it is wetness you are finding then you are probably over powering the breathability of the suit by perspiring too much because you are working so hard...
r
(product tester for Gore)
@
Event should be the hands-down winner. Alpacka raft is coming out with a new drysuit this spring which may be very lightweight.
As far as Kokatat vs. “cheap”…
– Last Updated: Mar-03-08 3:36 PM EST –
Here's what I got from the company reps I spoke with when I did my pre-purchase "drysuit research":
- Kokatat has always been the best because they were the only company to use Gore-tex. However, Gore-tex is no longer the only "breathable" fabric in existence, with Palm using a version made in the UK and Stohlquist using yet another (I forget where that one comes from). Neither of these other fabrics have the long track record of Gore-tex, but then again, they haven't yet had the chance.
- The main reason Kokatat offered a "lifetime" guarantee was because Gore-tex, itself, had made the same guarantee to them on the fabric. Not sure I buy that completely, given the positive customer service testimonials here, but I'm sure there's probably at least some grain of truth in it.
As long as we're comparing Kokatat to the other well-known suits - Palm, Stohlquist, et al - I don't think we're talking about Kokatat versus "cheap" suits. Even though Kokatat may be a tad more expensive, it's not THAT much more than these other brands.
I decided to spend $800.00 on a Palm Stikine instead of $1,000 on a Kokatat not because of the money, but because Kokatat suits seem to be made to fit ectomorphs, mannequins, elves, and otherwise perfectly-proportioned people. Those of us who may have waved bye-bye to sizes "medium" or "regular" a long time ago, with maybe a wider chest/shoulders than waist or other size differences (or at least ME) may be SOL. A Kokatat suit that I've used for work, which my employer provided, had to be so big to accomadate my shoulders that I felt like I was wearing a hefty bag from the chest down.
I also didn't find the Kokatat fabric to be all that rugged or abrasion-resistant for my needs. Essentially, the Palm fits my body better and seems to be made a lot tougher than the Kokatat for my purposes - but that's why I bought it, not because it's "cheap" and Kokatat is the be-all, end-all.
I think that as the other "breathable" fabrics become more proven and more readily available, either Kokatat's prices will go down to reflect the other suits' (not likely) or the prices of the other suits will increase.
In any case, NONE of them seem to "breathe" enough to keep me dry, anyway. The industry standard for "breathable" fabric must be set using a low-activity person who doesn't have sweat glands.
How do you know that?
Ewwww.
Try Craft’s crew underwear
The fabric with the tiny ribknit. It wicks faster than anything else I’ve tried. There’s no magic bullet, only better ones.
Not quite true
Stolquist used to make Gore-tex drysuits. I own one. They no longer make those.
stohlquist
Have had no need to exercise the warranty, but whatever Stohlquist is doing with TTL Eclipse™ fabric in the BPOD is way better than my old Ravenspring, and superior to the GoreTex in jackets from Marmot etc. Not saying that the BPOD is better than Kokatat, but the technology has gotten so good that it makes sense to me to buy on features (fabric rather latex booties, fabric neck gasket etc) and price, and here Stohlquist has some advantages.
Sweat Glands,…
…we all have them and they are actually “necessary” to make breathable fabrics work. What passes thru the fabric is water “vapor” not air. You get vapor when you sweat, the high humidity inside your suit is transferred to the outside (lower humidity) by the membrane.Other factors may increase this transference or hinder it but you can do that research on you on. One should note that Gortex uses a polyurethane coating over the teflon in their membrane because they discovered that once dirty or contaminated, the teflon would transfer moisture both ways, so in effect and to the best of my research, the operative component of Goretex is the polyurethene coating which I believe puts it into the same catagory as most of the others. I believe I read that there are over 200 breathable membranes patented today. To me, believing that only one, who happens to spend big bucks for name recognition, is the best, is asking me to believe in the tooth fairy. Just my opinion.
John
objective differences
The folks at BackpackingLight.com seem convinced that eVent is much more breathable than any of the Gore-Tex variants or knockoffs.
If you google for “Gibson Natick breathable test”, you’ll find an Army researcher who purports to have found real differences in breathability. With charts and everything. eVent is again almost the winner, after one PTFE variant that I think is the old, pre-polyurethane Gore-Tex (and thus has durability problems).
– Mark
I agree
"To me, believing that only one, who happens to spend big bucks for name recognition, is the best, is asking me to believe in the tooth fairy. Just my opinion."
I think people have always just opted for Gore-tex because it was the first well-known fabric of the type and the first big mass-market success for that type of product. Just made it easier than to research anything else.
BTW - my comment about sweat glands was meant as sarcasm, which I don’t do a great job of translating into netspeak, sometimes.
Natick Results
I believe that if you check the results you will see that E-vent blows away Goretex, not the old one either) and another winner is Entrant, which I believe will be the membrane used in the new IR Drysuits. There are many more newer ones which are not reflected in Mr. Gibsons test that may also exceed the old standby. It is also my understanding that in order to use the name “Gortex,” the teflon portion of the original patent has to be used or they can’t call it Gortex. Apparently using this combination makes Gortex very expensive to produce, which then gives the edge, price wise, to other brands. Couple this with the advantages of being produced in a cheaper market, as in overseas, gives an even better price point to some other brands or let’s them add more features or detailing for a similar or lower price. I think you might chalk this up to the world market that we are operating under now.
John
yep
I’ve already got my crews of choice, duofold. Love 'em.
same here
especially not true
if you have one of the older urethane models
Sorry About the "Breathe Back & Forth"
b.s.
Guess I don’t really know. I just feel cooler in the wind. I don’t have the sweating problem as I’ve learned not to OVER or UNDERdress under my Kokatat.
Mine was $800 or so a few years back and well worth it, though I find myself wearing my Palm dry pants and dry top and simply paddling close to shore in winter. Still think we should all wear head gear in winter and have WARM gloves close (I bare hand it) if spit out of the boat.