I’m visiting Washington State. I went paddling yesterday dressed for the water, not the air (which is unseasonably warm). I donned a drysuit which I very rarely do as I live in Georgia. Underneath I had a polypro top and polypro bottom. A few hours into trip I found I was getting a noticeable amount of discomfort due to my shirt binding (on the right arm only) under my armpit. Kind of like an armpit wedgie!! In case your wondering, I have a Kokatat Idol suit which is a two piece with the zip separating the top and bottom, so I don’t think it was that. Anyway, wondering if this is common or if there is anyone who makes something appropriate for borderline conditions (or conditions where air is warm or hot and sea is cold) which has a roomier armpit area, which is I guess what I need. I’m even wondering if I should try cutting out the armpit area from one of my thermal pieces.
Given the air temps there, has to be a real challenge to layer for water without overheating.
Odd that the discomfort was just on one arm. I wonder if there was a difference in the cut of the material. Hate to see a good shirt cut up. Can you try on a shirt the next size up so there’s more looseness in the shoulder area? Or maybe stretch the area where it was binding (while the shirt is wet).
I have the two-piece Kokatat Radius. No similar issues, but I don’t like form fitting shirts so if I have to go the next size up, I will. When air temp is warm but the water still cold, I usually wear a Kokatat long sleeved woolcore shirt. It’s lightweight and I haven’t overheated - so far I’ve stayed upright and haven’t tested the combination in cold water. Hope to keep it that way.
Could shirt be two loose and moving material to crease or bunch up? What was water air temps? Never had problems with kokatat or nrs shirts. Kokatat wool core is very comfortable. I have two shirts and one pants.
haven;t used the Idol, but I can;t imagine it any different than the others. I suspect the binding is related to the undergarment, not the dry suit.
Is this your dry suit, or a rental/borrow? If yours, have you had the binding before?
I’ve experienced this before. It was noticeable as a pinching sensation, though I suspect it was either irritation from one of the seams on the undergarment, or it was rolling up and pulling my armpit hair. Usually some readjusting from the outside has helped out. I’ve looked for irritation after taking off the suit and have not noticed or felt anything. It remains a bit of a mystery to me, hence the theory about pulling hair. I suppose you could try shaving your pits… or just the one side? 
That happens to me with my 2 mm wetsuit. I think it is nothing more than the sleeve material climbing up the arm while paddling. The neo is resistant to gliding back down the arm. I yank it down when i can and it stops.
Never happened with my underlayers in drysuit though.
KP
Ive worn the drysuit once before and don’t recall that binding feeling. I’m pretty sure I was wearing a different under layer. The Kokatat wool core top seems like a good potential fix. Glad I posted this.
Try wool instead. I use it in the summer too. Much more comfortable than plastic undergarment. If it is really hot, I sometimes wear thicker wool so it can absorb more sweat!
By the way, the wedgie feeling can sometimes come from a PFD strap. So make sure that your PFD hasn’t crept up and that no straps are twisted.
@Allan Olesen said:
Try wool instead. I use it in the summer too. Much more comfortable than plastic undergarment. If it is really hot, I sometimes wear thicker wool so it can absorb more sweat!By the way, the wedgie feeling can sometimes come from a PFD strap. So make sure that your PFD hasn’t crept up and that no straps are twisted.
@Allan Olesen said:
Try wool instead. I use it in the summer too. Much more comfortable than plastic undergarment. If it is really hot, I sometimes wear thicker wool so it can absorb more sweat!By the way, the wedgie feeling can sometimes come from a PFD strap. So make sure that your PFD hasn’t crept up and that no straps are twisted.
Works great under arms, crotch, any rub area.
Hey Monkeyhead, where were you paddling? Also, did you happen to get my message? Something went haywire when I sent it and my phone indicates I sent it five times. Really I didn’t, but AT&T charged me for it five times. Sorry about all that.
Anyway, I have had some of the same armpit wadding in the winter and the way I deal with it is to wear long sleeved undershirts. It’s easy enough to pull the sleeve down to relieve the wadding. It is odd that it only happens on my right armpit. My wife got me a new undershirt that is polyester spandex and it doesn’t wad at all. The shirt is very smooth and silky.
I probably shouldn’t make this a private conversation, but are you going to make it to the Columbia? You won’t need your dry suit here. It is supposed to be close to 90 degrees here today, but it will be very comfortable on the river. I’m going to launch at Rainier, Oregon today and have no destination in mind. It will just be good to be out on the river.
I never wear short sleeves. Long probably stays in position better
One thing I learned long ago about the best knit shirt design for all outdoor sports is to look for those with “raglan” sleeves rather than “set-in” sleeves. Most shirts are set-in which means the sleeve is stitched on around the circumference of the top of the arm, as if it was sewn onto a sleeveless shirt. A raglan sleeve is attached via a diagonal seam that goes from the armpit all the way up to the neckline both front and back. These don’t have seams across the top of the shoulder which minimizes chafing from backpack straps and PFDs. And when used on a shirt with stretchy material the raglans seem to reduce creeping and wadding.
I also agree with Allan O about lightweight Smartwool base layers too. It’s actually pretty comfortable for warmer weather because, unlike many synthetics, it doesn’t stick to your skin and it breathes very well. It also keeps you warm even when wet so if the temps change you won’t get chilled and it stretches. Also machine washable and not itchy. Wool fibers keep their loft (springiness) when wet and don’t flatten out. Smartwool is pricey, and you do need to make sure you store it somewhere the moths can’t get to it (I’ve had to patch more than one of my Smartwool shirts). But I have often gotten nice pieces of it at off price stores like TJ Maxx and from discounters like Sierra Trading Post. Try just a plain tee shirt of Smartwool first and see how you like it. I have short and long sleeved shirts, hoodies and even full length leggings and have used them under dry shell wear for some time.
@magooch said:
Hey Monkeyhead, where were you paddling? Also, did you happen to get my message? Something went haywire when I sent it and my phone indicates I sent it five times. Really I didn’t, but AT&T charged me for it five times. Sorry about all that.Anyway, I have had some of the same armpit wadding in the winter and the way I deal with it is to wear long sleeved undershirts. It’s easy enough to pull the sleeve down to relieve the wadding. It is odd that it only happens on my right armpit. My wife got me a new undershirt that is polyester spandex and it doesn’t wad at all. The shirt is very smooth and silky.
I probably shouldn’t make this a private conversation, but are you going to make it to the Columbia? You won’t need your dry suit here. It is supposed to be close to 90 degrees here today, but it will be very comfortable on the river. I’m going to launch at Rainier, Oregon today and have no destination in mind. It will just be good to be out on the river.
Magooch, I was paddling in the San Juans. Yesterday I was in Dabob Bay with a different undergarment (a dive skin) and noticed a little bit of ride up in the arms but not nearly so much. The water was quite warm but I don’t think I overheat easily and not knowing what to expect and being by myself in a new boat, I opted for the drysuit.
I didn’t get your message. There’s nothing in my inbox on paddling.com and no text messages on my phone. I’ll double check the number I gave you and correct if necessary. I’ve got plans Monday and Wednesday and plan to paddle on Tuesday (Sauvie Island) and Thursday (Ranier, which you had recommended) if you’re interested and available. After Ranier, I plan to head to Astoria and paddle in Wilapa Bay on Friday.
PS - just checked the number I PM’ed to you the other day and it is correct.
@Monkeyhead said:
@magooch said:
Hey Monkeyhead, where were you paddling? Also, did you happen to get my message? Something went haywire when I sent it and my phone indicates I sent it five times. Really I didn’t, but AT&T charged me for it five times. Sorry about all that.Anyway, I have had some of the same armpit wadding in the winter and the way I deal with it is to wear long sleeved undershirts. It’s easy enough to pull the sleeve down to relieve the wadding. It is odd that it only happens on my right armpit. My wife got me a new undershirt that is polyester spandex and it doesn’t wad at all. The shirt is very smooth and silky.
I probably shouldn’t make this a private conversation, but are you going to make it to the Columbia? You won’t need your dry suit here. It is supposed to be close to 90 degrees here today, but it will be very comfortable on the river. I’m going to launch at Rainier, Oregon today and have no destination in mind. It will just be good to be out on the river.
Magooch, I was paddling in the San Juans. Yesterday I was in Dabob Bay with a different undergarment (a dive skin) and noticed a little bit of ride up in the arms but not nearly so much. The water was quite warm but I don’t think I overheat easily and not knowing what to expect and being by myself in a new boat, I opted for the drysuit.
I didn’t get your message. There’s nothing in my inbox on paddling.com and no text messages on my phone. I’ll double check the number I gave you and correct if necessary. I’ve got plans Monday and Wednesday and plan to paddle on Tuesday (Sauvie Island) and Thursday (Ranier, which you had recommended) if you’re interested and available. After Ranier, I plan to head to Astoria and paddle in Wilapa Bay on Friday.
@willowleaf said:
One thing I learned long ago about the best knit shirt design for all outdoor sports is to look for those with “raglan” sleeves rather than “set-in” sleeves. Most shirts are set-in which means the sleeve is stitched on around the circumference of the top of the arm, as if it was sewn onto a sleeveless shirt. A raglan sleeve is attached via a diagonal seam that goes from the armpit all the way up to the neckline both front and back. These don’t have seams across the top of the shoulder which minimizes chafing from backpack straps and PFDs. And when used on a shirt with stretchy material the raglans seem to reduce creeping and wadding.I also agree with Allan O about lightweight Smartwool base layers too. It’s actually pretty comfortable for warmer weather because, unlike many synthetics, it doesn’t stick to your skin and it breathes very well. It also keeps you warm even when wet so if the temps change you won’t get chilled and it stretches. Also machine washable and not itchy. Wool fibers keep their loft (springiness) when wet and don’t flatten out. Smartwool is pricey, and you do need to make sure you store it somewhere the moths can’t get to it (I’ve had to patch more than one of my Smartwool shirts). But I have often gotten nice pieces of it at off price stores like TJ Maxx and from discounters like Sierra Trading Post. Try just a plain tee shirt of Smartwool first and see how you like it. I have short and long sleeved shirts, hoodies and even full length leggings and have used them under dry shell wear for some time.
@willowleaf said:
One thing I learned long ago about the best knit shirt design for all outdoor sports is to look for those with “raglan” sleeves rather than “set-in” sleeves. Most shirts are set-in which means the sleeve is stitched on around the circumference of the top of the arm, as if it was sewn onto a sleeveless shirt. A raglan sleeve is attached via a diagonal seam that goes from the armpit all the way up to the neckline both front and back. These don’t have seams across the top of the shoulder which minimizes chafing from backpack straps and PFDs. And when used on a shirt with stretchy material the raglans seem to reduce creeping and wadding.I also agree with Allan O about lightweight Smartwool base layers too. It’s actually pretty comfortable for warmer weather because, unlike many synthetics, it doesn’t stick to your skin and it breathes very well. It also keeps you warm even when wet so if the temps change you won’t get chilled and it stretches. Also machine washable and not itchy. Wool fibers keep their loft (springiness) when wet and don’t flatten out. Smartwool is pricey, and you do need to make sure you store it somewhere the moths can’t get to it (I’ve had to patch more than one of my Smartwool shirts). But I have often gotten nice pieces of it at off price stores like TJ Maxx and from discounters like Sierra Trading Post. Try just a plain tee shirt of Smartwool first and see how you like it. I have short and long sleeved shirts, hoodies and even full length leggings and have used them under dry shell wear for some time.
Interesting, and good to know. Looks like the Kokatat WoolCore shirt I was thinking about is a raglan sleeve pattern. Also, regarding smart wool, I agree it’s good stuff. I have several pairs of socks from REI made of that and they perform great.
On wool, make sure it doesn’t make you itch before investing in expensive undergarments. I can’t have it next to my skin.
@Celia said:
On wool, make sure it doesn’t make you itch before investing in expensive undergarments. I can’t have it next to my skin.
Have you tried Merino wool? It is very different from the rough wool known from other clothes.
I second the recommendation for raglan sleeves whenever possible.
Also for the Body Glide. I used to wear it on chafe points, whenever a particular garment had them. It allows clothing to slide rather than rub, but it won’t stop an actual pinch from poor fit.
@Celia said:
On wool, make sure it doesn’t make you itch before investing in expensive undergarments. I can’t have it next to my skin.
Allen is right about good merino wool. I can wear SmartWool directly on the skin, either upper body or lower, and it is soft and comfortable. It is MEANT to be worn on the skin.
However, if the intolerance is from allergy rather than mechanical irritation (scratchiness), even the finest merino wool might set you off.