I wondered if this'd come up...
Tho' it's not on the boat much these days since I finally found that I can count on my roll in at least normal paddling conditions (hopefully I solve the current thing this season), I had one of these on my front deck for two seasons.
I spent an unusually long time in an awkward state where I had a great hip snap and when everything lined up right could roll, but had very erratic percentages due to diving paddle and general mess-ups. The one thing I knew I could rely on was the hip snap tho', got that early and well, and had no question about my ability to roll up if I had a little less fussy support than I could get off the paddle. I also was handling leans etc very conservatively, so one backup opportunity in a paddle could make the diff in wehether I ever swam.
I generally paddle with company, but I really want to be able to handle my own baggage as a first option if possible.
As to the guy who was thinking that he could avoid having a roll - he clearly paid no attention to the material that came with it. There are copious instructions with the device and on the web site, in large print, saying it is only to be used by people who already have significant progress towards or a roll. And these folks are right - without a hip snap it ain't getting you up. But with a hip snap, if you are a bit tired or not getting it right with the paddle it is a very effective aid.
As to how well it works - pretty well. The tube attaches easily to deck rigging, the handle that you pull is large and easy to find without seeing it, and the CO2 cartridge inflates promptly upon pulling the handle, in fact it inflates better under water and in colder water than in the air. It'll gradually deflate from the CO2, tho' I can't say exactly how long it takes because I never ended up using it for the real thing. I practiced doing the full exercise once then threw it in the back of the car and didn't track the deflation time.
The only part of this that I found to be less than stellar was its performance as a paddle-float. The theory is good - if you blow the roll with it too you are automatically set up with a paddle-float - but it is pretty awkward for that purpose and I'd argue that using it to assist in a re-enter and roll would be a better idea.
I am fairly sure I will get lambasted on this one - near as I can tell most paddlers either give up on getting an effective roll or have theirs a whole lot sooner than I did. Because of a pretty significant issue with claustrophobia, my roll took about two years to make it from the pond and the pool to a real capsize. And my deck reflected some very conservative measures that I took in the interim to leave myself some very easily accessible alternatives. The big red foam float on top was replaced with an inflatable one behind the seat about the same time the Roll-Aid went back into the gear bag. But if I were on a multi-day paddle, over long and tiring distances, the Roll-Aid is the one device that might come out of the gear bag again.
BY the way, this is another one of those small companies of kayak stuff run by really nice people. About six weeks after having received ours, we had a message on our answering machine from the owner letting us know that he had just located our check in his desk drawer and had put it thru.
Kayak Kickstand Award - I Like It! I like your suggestion of “Kayak Kickstand Award” as the name for the dumbest paddling product.
It was dumbness of the Kayak Kickstand that inspired me to start this subject for all of the reasons you listed. Furthermore, the name “Kayak Kickstand” just sounds dumb on its own. A kickstand isn’t even cool on a bike anymore, never mind a kayak.
I could also see mounting a gold plated Kayak Kickstand on a little base to serve as an award statuette. Hey, we may have finally found a good use for this device!!
Reasonable Sounds like you’re about the ideal target customer. Likely all these things have some happy users/proponents.
I agree they are very clear about it’s use.
Now all they need are miniature versions that are embedded in the ends of the paddle shaft (plenty of room for CO2 cartridges) or strapped on - that actuate bags/donuts along/around the blades…
I do have to wonder if having your RollAid there on deck for two season didn’t actually slow your progress though - trusting to it while paddling more vs. spending more on-water time focused on the roll. Did you ever need to use it other than practice? If not, I’d say it cost you time and $ better spent elsewhere.
Didn’t slow me In fact with it being there I was able to relax a bit more, which was basically what I needed to do anyway. I paddle and roll decently when I am haven’t tied myself up in knots. The relaxation process just took a long long time because I couldn’t “just do it”. I had to gradually increase the challenge level and get acclimated at each increment.
In trainings it can take me the entire first half of the day to loosen up, and I always end better than I started. It’s just me.
But the thing that most accelerated my roll was getting the Explorer LV and the foam core paddle. Went to a pond with the new equipment, nailed three in a row the first time ever and the sun didst break thru the clouds…
epic rudder the mirage kayaks out of australia have a simular rudder. You can get one that is flush to the keel line or you can get one that extends past the keel line.
Doesn’t matter what kind of rudder you have if the back end of the boat is out of the water on top of a wave.
Definitely way up there. I’ll second that the boatslider has to be way up on the list. That is the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen. I love how the video shows the yaks already sitting on the rocks while someone sets up the rack. What are you supposed to do, get out in waist deep water to get out and put the trax down? What idiot would buy those things?!
why dumb? In WW pinned kayak ( say upside down ) is a rather bad situation. Having extra air gives more time for potential rescuers to get their wits and ropes together.
Yes - which roll? I can’t do the forward finishing rolls right with a GP (yet) because I lose it in the chest scull spot, but can do a few of the others. My issue with rolling was not about the tool, or the fundamental technique, but having to get by claustrophobia. This is an irrational response - it doesn’t lend itself to a solution other than lots of time and lots of acclimitization.
University of Sea Kayaking Wayne H is a good guy and solid paddler, but to suggest that just because something is sold by his school/website it’s “legit” is giving way too much credit to USK.
By way of example, ever see the USK video, “Beyond the Cockpit?” Has to be the worst instructional video out there.
interesting what makes the list… I was surprised to see the Warren Craft listed as a dumb idea…didn’t they just win awards for the design. Don’t they come from a life time of boat building?
Favorite quote…“obsessed with image without realising how stupid they look”…
Couldn’t that be used by the Warren Craft people to describe those afraid of new ideas?
rebreathers come from the world of cave exploration, invented I thought after his friend died exploring a huge cave sysem…
They are starting to market similar things for high avalanche conditions.
I don’t know if it will work out for kayakers but I would think it might be of interest to commerical fishermen. This comes too mind after some guys drowned in The Merrimac after their boat capsized. Rescuers could hear them tapping on the hull till they used up all the air and died.
Beyound the Cockpit as “worst instructional video out there”
Warren Won Design Award? If Warren Light Craft won a design award, it was not by an organization familiar with naval architecture.
Maybe Warren Light Craft has discovered a previoulsy unknown loophole that makes their kayaks defy the laws of physics. If so I suspect they would be a contender for a Noble Prize.
Maybe Certainly being able to relax and not worry about having to swim if your roll doesn’t work is a good thing. However, there is an alternative to the roll-aid. It is called the extended paddle roll. Almost everyone can learn it in 15 minutes or so. It is easy to do and virtually bombproof from the start. You can teach it to yourself with Jay Babina’s video. It is not what I would recommend for the roll you regularly do but it is very good as a back up roll and for giving you confidence you can get up if your regular roll fails.
That extended thing Once I was able to command the anxiety - again claustrophobia is not rational - I could do the extended paddle roll immediately. When the “obia” was still in as much command as my will, that was way too much paddle to have out to be pulled around by overly tense hands. I was much better off with a less extended form, in fact I maybe should have just started with a hand roll and get the friggin’ paddle out of the way at first.
There was a woman in the last two pool sessions locally who was interesting. She has a perfect boat - an old perception Whip-It - had great flexibility and hip snap right out of the box. And starts out with a tendency to keep her head down without being told. She spent the first session learning the hip snap and when to do it. Last might she came in and rolled with her hand on a paddle-float with no support from me within the first 15 minutes (I had my hand on her PFD strap for safety). About 30 minutes later she went over with the paddle set and did one or two bona fide rolls that way, again with someone physically lightly touching the paddle.
But - she could only do this with the assurance that someone had their hands on her paddle or on her PFD - even if the person was doing absolutely nothing to support her. She tried it on her own once and it was full-scale-climb-up-the-helper response.
Bottom line, she is so challenged by being under the boat right now that she is not able to appreciate that she is rolling. And while she will be rolling handily once she gets acclimated, this is going to take a bit to resolve.
As a Professional Product Designer… … with a Bachelors in Industrial Design, two decades designing, I can assure you that “Design” awards are more about marketing gimmicks than engineering.
In School, and early on, I played the game and collected a few myself.
Some of the higher profile awards were created to sell magazines (Business Weeks biggest selling issue every year is their “design” issue featuring their award winners).
These kayaks with “wings” are a perfect marketing gimmick to win such awards. They have bright colors and provocative curves - that are masquerading as engineering to bring the story full circle. Catches the eye, then follows up with techy buzz words few will question.
If you can name a product designer, odds are they’ve built their careen on exploiting this sort of thing. They may or may not be good designers, but they are good self promoters.(I’m not judging either - just noting how well it works. See P.T. Barnum for the reasons).
“Design” is first and foremost a marketing tool. this doesn’t prevent good functional design work with sound engineering (which sometimes wins awards too - quietly), but doesn’t encourage or demand it either. I like to see awards given for everything from pure aesthetics to pure function, and everything in between - as long as everyone is clear which is which.
Generally though, an award = fluff for consumption, not proof of concept. In a media centric buyers market, that’s where the demand is.
I suspect the Warren Lightcraft folks are in this to sell more than to revolutionize kayaking as they claim. If so, a reasonably smart ploy in a fairly tidy and well targeted package. What harm if fools like paddling clown shoes? On the other hand, they could really be buying into all their own BS and really think their stuff is all that. I’ve seen it MANY times. The “inventor’s blinders” syndrome. Always a bit sad.