But…as you age something you could have survived when younger will kill you when older, so it is easier “to take more chances”.
I think how we live a life to the end is an individual thing. My Dad flew P51s and P38s during WW2 in the Pacific. He has been active all his life until recently. It is still good to have him around.
My Dad is 99 and will be 100 in about 4 months. He could walk up until he was 94 when he fell because an SUV pointed up a steep drive with a self-raising back hatch, with which he had no experience pushed him over as it raised. In fact, he had gone turkey hunting that spring and deer hunting the previous fall. He uses a walker, but he will let us but him in a wheelchair when there is a chance of him falling. He still lives at home and enjoys what he is still able to do, however he says he is becoming feeble. He has said for years that he could go at any time, and he has had a good life. He likes still being here too. We as a family feel blessed to have him living. He tells some great stories and is a direct connection to the past. These photos are from a family get together back in May. He loves to fish, and he can beat you at card games.
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And you didn’t fall far from the tree.
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Does that mean I am a Nut! 
Good genes around this forum! Mom will be 92 next month and Dad turned 94 last Feb. Still in their home of the past 30+ years. No longer driving (thankfully), but not such a problem with grocery delivery and Amazon Prime.
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Quality of life isn’t about how long you live, it’s how well you live. One person may believe that includes the quantity of bacon and ice cream consumed, while another needs one more glacier to climb.
The tragedy is in the ignorance of consequences - yes, ignorance of consequences.
My father-in-law outlived his relatives; most never reached 60 years old. He had a stroke at around 70 years old and just wated to die for about 10 years. I told him about a guy riding a recumbent bicycle on the bike tail. His wheel chair broke free, and he was just retrieving it from the bushes. I asked if he needed help? “No, I think I’m good!” A few weeks later, while taking a break, a man with one leg peddled past. His good leg strapped into a pedal cage. Looking back on that, I think those two events were a sign, because they were so unique at a key moment in time. (That’s just what I think). After relating the incidents that showed the reresiliency of human spirit, my father-in-law said, “That’s not me!” He just wanted to die.
Years earlier, I caused an unintended furrow when my wife’s mother asked me to carve a beef roast for a Sunday dinner. Cutting off the mantle of crispy fat encircling the meat, it was then carried to the trash. I totally missed the mask of shock and contempt on the faces around the table - I had thrown the best part in the trash. I NEVER outlived that incident and was thereafter viewed as a presumptuous ass. Thinking I was adding quality years to his life, instead, I ruined Sunday dinner (perception depends on point of view). He didn’t want me to improve the quality of his life - that was "none of my business!"After his stroke, the family then deprived him of unhealthy foods. All he wanted was ice cream or raw ground beef topped with a raw egg and raw onion. If I had been a good son-in-law, I would have cooked him a roast with all the fat. It would have mended the broken fences.
Contrasting that with my brother’s father-in-law, the doctor broke the bad news about his failing health. He scoffed the doctor saying, “I guess youre going to tell me now that I need to eat more broccoli and grapefruit.” The doctor just leveled with him “. . . It’s too late for that!” They found out a few months later that the doctor was right, and oh, what a shock that was.
The difference between the two stories is only the ignorance if consequences. I might be a pretentious ass, but I’m wise enough to let others live and let live. The consequences of someone’s actions might be predictable, but it’s not fair to impose judgement. When you reach adulthood, the one thing you’ve earned is control of your life.
When the inevitable approaches, I’m not sure if I’ll want to sit down in the snow or go kayaking on the bay. I’m might just watch TV, eat bacon, ice cream, cotton candy, sausage, egg and cheese sandwiches on croissants, have Krispy Kreme donuts delivered, then drink beer and party. Please don’t judge me just because you’d rather paddle beneath a gracier! My TV is 4K and 3D capable. I’ll experience it in the comfort of my home. Eh, go ahead, judge me, but it won’t change my mind.
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It isn’t unique at all. In bioethics and the legal system you can see many examples: transplant lists, metrics called DALYs (daily adjusted life years,) payouts for deaths by insurance companies.
You don’t have to agree with it but it’s not an unusual outlook, it’s foundational in bioethics and our legal system.
There has been some interesting talk on here about “the odds” and as someone who just finished graduate course in biostatistics, I find the conversation really fascinating.
Given the big picture, I don’t believe my absolute risk of death paddling around a placid lake without a PFD changes in an appreciably significant way *at the individual level * You DO see a difference at the population level —two different things.
In health and safety policy, the thing to appreciate is there is such a thing as pushing the intervention to the point where it has the unintended consequences of making people *less likely * to comply. This mistake is very common historically.
A fascinating debate for sure, not personal.
At the end of the day, a privately owned forum can have the rules they want but a person doesn’t have jurisdiction over another person paddling a kayak just because they believe they know best.
People that try and shame others often cause the reverse results because people get their backs up and decide to set boundaries on the American culture of safetyism.
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Of course much of this conversation is about me, myself and I. No slight intended, but there can be public facing aspects.
Where l vacation in Maine has several cottages and a few rec kayaks etc for renters to use. The rules state that kids in the boats or on the boards have use a PFD. Recommended for adults. I am only not wearing one if l am swimming. The rare moments, this water is a bit chilly for lazy swims.
But my sister copped an attitude and utterly refuses to wear one. Which IMO is not great for parents here enforcing that rule. Kids being kids, if they see an opening they will take it. Even if wearing PFD is not required, most adults here do because it makes life easier all around.
Granted she has the right. But there is a cultivated lack of broader awareness that bothers me.
Our thinking isn’t so far apart, it’s just coming from different angles. I understand what actuaries do and why insurers and others base decisions - at least partly - on their stats. As long as the methodology is sound, then it makes no sense to agree or disagree with the numbers … they are what they are. It’s like gravity, we can choose to disagree with it, but nothing changes.
So, without agreeing, disagreeing or being judgemental, making a conscious choice to take more risk as we age still looks like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me. More risk, especially when combined with the decrease in physical strength, mental acuity, and physiological resilience that is aging, reduces a person’s chance of beating the actuaries’ bet on when the reaper will come calling. To some it’s important to win the bet and to others it’s not. So be it.
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“Of course much of this conversation is about me, myself and I.”
It’s interesting that European Union, generally believed to be a more collectivist society does not have regulations about flotation devices.
I have lived here three years and never seen a life jacket although the white water kayakers wear them I think. Swimmers and paddlers on lakes, I’ve not observed them.
The children’s playgrounds all have much riskier equipment and swings, climbing walls. They really encourage more risk taking and the children are very “free range.” Babies are left outside in buggies while mom runs into the store or post office.
So I understand your point about setting a good example (in Maine) realize that might mean something completely different in Switzerland, Germany, or Austria because they look at Americans in horror about some of the things we do (fast food, snacks, sugar etc which are killing our children —look at the numbers of fatty livers in twelve year olds.
They judge us the same way you judge them. The kids often don’t have cell phones or allowed in social media. They are encouraged to play hard outside, jump off of cliffs, swim across the lake, and so on.
My observation is their kids are much healthier and confident and it pains me to say that as a patriotic American.
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Couldn’t agree more that getting kids outside (without the Pringles, Red Bull and tiny screen!) has life-long benefits. It’s something really good we can do, it’s easy, and it doesn’t need to cost a lot.
With regard to cultural risk aversity in the US, I suspect it is related directly to modern tort law. To avoid any hint of negligence and possible exposure to the business-killing publicity, huge jury awards and over-the-moon legal fees we see here, it’s understandable why any “deep pockets” entity feels obligated to seek full body cast protection even though they know a Band Aid would do the job. That, in turn, blesses society with over-regulation, ridiculous warning labels and more fears that can be counted, rational and otherwise.
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Yes. I think one reason that safety topics often drift or become emotional is that some folks look at them as individuals (this is what I do and why), some as teachers (putti g their personal views aside), and others like me are in-between where I feel compelled to challenge generalizations but I’ll try not to discuss things I do that could set a bad example for others.
I like castoff’s original post because it highlights 2 real dangers (wind, and being underprepared due to assuming your trip will go as planned) without telling anyone else what they should do. I’ve had about half a dozen memorable experiences with sudden dramatic changes of wind speed and I’ve had two experiences where being underprepared was potentially serious. It is not trivial to pack optimally; I remember getting caught three days in a row without the right stuff this past Spring (need warmer gloves, need extra pair of dry warm gloves, need neoprene socks, etc) so I think it’s good to reflect on one’s preparedness.
I think the messages in the original post are valuable and universal.
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As somebody who lives “next door” (Czechia being a neighbouring country to both Germany and Austria) I can confirm this. A PFD is more or less “WW professional stuff” in the eyes of local paddlers. Even if there is a fatality, typical comments even from professional rescuers tend to be more along the lines of “should have portaged” or “shouldn’t have drunk” than “should have worn a PFD.” Of course, rivers in Czechia are generally less unforgiving and we don’t have that hot air icy cold water combo I read a lot about on the forums.
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When I lived and paddled in Germany, I only noticed PFDs when on whitewater. For this lover of the “Land of the Free”, it really was something that surprised me about Germany and the EU. In many ways they seemed more “free” about personal choices (responsibility?) and access, especially when pursuing outdoor recreation.
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Our Club has minimum number of rules for an official trip.
- sea kayak with watertight bulkheads or other flotation devices (like air bags). Sit-on-Tops are considered to have watertight bulkheads.
- personal flotation device (PFD) and sound producing device, such as whistle (USCG requirements). PFD must be properly worn.
- paddle float
- bilge pump (except sit-on-tops)
- spray skirt on boats designed to accommodate them- must be worn (check with trip leader for exceptions)
- light that can be shown to prevent a collision (USCG requirement, night paddle only).
- if the trip announcement specifies cold water gear is required, cold water gear appropriate for the expected conditions.
For the safety of the individual and the group these rules are strictly enforced as we paddle mainly on open water. Safety requirements are also required for our liability policy.
Don’t want to abide by these rules, paddle with someone else.
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So, of course, if one chooses to go out with a group, one has to observe the stipulations and conventions agreed upon by the group.
That’s exactly why some of us choose to not paddle with a group a lot of times. Because, for whatever our reasons, we choose not be under those strictures of a particular group.
I am not against group paddling. But, on most occasisons, I prefer not be. I am glad for the choice.
sing
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I lived in Hawaii for ten years, are you from there?
We saw this guy half way to Molokai. Another place where it’s wild and free.
One of the Marines wives that grew up there swam from Hawaii Kai to Molokai. 
Risk tolerance is very cultural IMO.
We were crossing in a 22’ Glacier Bay and that was enough for me! The seas get pretty big.
It really blows my mind.
Look at these kids:
One was taunting the other to jump and I said “I’m speaking for your mom, I don’t think you should do that” and they laughed and asked me to video them.
It does seem like how I grew up so I secretly am proud of them but I was worried we might have to jump in iif he knocked himself out.
It’s crystal clear to me that the kids are more confident and less depressed.
So……what if the risk has psychological benefits?!
IMHO, a factor in the mental health crisis we see in the US , particularly among youth is a lack of resilience. Building resilience includes decision-making, risk taking, and personal responsibility. In our hyper-safety, “helicopter” parenting culture we’ve taken that complete away from youth.
Your pictures are exactly the kind of risks I would have taken as a youngster. I survived and learned a lot, and was better equipped to deal with life’s vagaries.
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That’s what I believe also but today’s climate is that you are a bad person if you take risk that other people don’t approve of.
I see people do things all the time that I wouldn’t do but I don’t judge them because I know somebody is judging me and it’s all relative.
I’m just not sure when all this started exactly but the kids all seem so solemn to us.
A little worried for the military too.
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