Dying of hypothermia knowing you were stupid! Important lessons

Paddlers' Place
#101

Regularly is in the eyes of the interpreter. Twice is regular to me. The last one I recall didn’t involve the car derailing. The occupant kept going when the car turned the corner. The restraint wasn’t fastened properly. My question is whether anyone wants me to decide the future of roller coasters?

I remember my first downhill experience on a bicycle. Fortunately for me, I survived. Some kids aren’t as lucky.

Charles Krauthammer survived a diving accident. He spent the rest of his life in a wheel chair but went on to raise a family and had a very productive, meaningful life. Kids still dive from high places into shallow water.

What some parents expose their childen to might be considered child abuse by others. So who gets to decide how you can observe bears, when you need a life jacket, whether you have the right to self defense when criminals are set free, or whether your kids can ride downhill. Hinckley was granted unconditional release on 15 June 2022. Life is about accepting risk.

That which does not kill us makes us stronger and more cautious.

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#102

Nobody was talking about curtailing anyone’s freedom until you brought it up a couple posts back.
That’s not what this thread is about.

And are you suggesting that Charles Krauthammer is better off for being paralyzed?
Or that our kids come out better from having survived a diving accident?

#103

No! Never mind!

#104

Its not about curtaing freedom. I got the impression the thread is about imposing safety standards on others. I’ll go back to watching TV.

#105

It does really build their confidence and self esteem. I really noticed it with young girls that handle horses. If changes how they walk, how they think about themselves.

#106

It’s possible, he was an exceptional person. I’m not sure that is knowable.

#107

Its called diversity.

#108

We noticed something today swimming in the lake in our dive booties: it’s very hard to tread water wearing them! I had on scuba booties and my husband had on his shoes. Neither of us were wearing shoes in our self rescue class in the pool and it is quite different trying to tread water with foot wear. Also, mine are very difficult to remove and I feel I need something better, like a low neoprene sock. I did not like it at all.

I need something for the rocky bottom, getting in and out but I don’t want to be wearing them if I end up in the drink. Any ideas on this?

I have foot pedals for the rudder so it’s nice to have something but I’d prefer something I could remove easily in the water.

#109

:sweat_smile:
Not by me.

#110

I thought it was about stories of people who badly misjudged risks and what they learned from them. I appreciate hearing these stories because I’d rather learn from their mistakes. Particularly, what were the warning signs they missed or ignored that I should look out for.

Sorry for getting snippy in my last post.

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#111

Don’t remember. Most of the threads end up about not following common sense rules, then somebody like me comes along and says they don’t ride on roller coasters. Crazy isnt it.

#112

It seems these threads resemble roller coasters; up, down and all around. :grin:

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#113

Maybe that’s why I thought about a roller coaster. Sorry, thought I was crazy.

#114

They also cover the same ground over and over and over and over, like we are stuck on a roller coaster.

#115

And, that’s why I think it is better to not to get too caught up with the back and forth. Make my/your point and move on. There is no need to defend, attack, counter attack and then counter again.

All we are doing is posting a data point that someone new to sport can read, consider along with others and then do whatever s/he wants.

sing

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#116

Definitely. Mastering a thousand pound animal is no small accomplishment, and it seems to give girls a big lift in confidence, not to mention bragging rights.

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#117

The truly wise man learns from the mistakes of others.

#118

It’s a little bit like reading the guide book for a new place: some people always do it and others just want to discover for themselves.

I like hearing what more experienced people say especially about cold water because we are new to it.
Partly that is why I am here.

On the other hand, I decided early in the season to get out there without a dry suit because I stay mostly close to shore and we have two boats.

I’m not interested in group activities because “group think” kills a lot of people also. I’m old enough to have witnessed a LOT of Group Think in scuba diving and flying. See “high risk cockpit” or the crash Japanese Flight that hit the jetty in SF.

We observe people doing things in groups that they would never do solo. I feel I’m much safer with a second boat but not so much in a herd of people I don’t really know calling my shots. We don’t really want a “leader” in many situations.

If you move a lot like we do, you are not going to be joining groups where you know the people.

I took a firearms class once for a concealed carry and the instructor took us out in the desert, got lost, no water, and even the federal agents in the class were pointing their firearms all around. I’ve not had good experiences in joining groups.

We like thinking things through, reading, talking to people and accept or reject what they say and then going it alone (2)

I read the original post again and here was their problem:

  • After work one day, we both hurried down to the boat launch with plans to get the Hobie cat anchored out. *

Back to our motto “never fall in love with The Plan”

Sticking with The Plan is what gets people killed and that often happens in groups because of peer pressure. that’s been our experience.

Last night we had a hellacious lightening and rain storm in the Alps and we zipped up the tent, put the bikes inside and left my kayak on the beach. This morning we felt sure our stuff would be all over the place but it was still the right call and we were not committed to our plan.

We prefer to constantly update our plan. It’s like comparing Bayesian to Frequentist statistics. Groups just don’t allow that agility IMO. I’m sure it’s good for some people but group decisions often don’t feel right to me.

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#119

One more thought: his mistake was not understanding the importance of direction of the wind. The same plan would have been okay if the wind was blowing the other way.
Recently I went out on Lake Konstanz a huge lake and the wind was too much for me and my boat but the wind blew me into the shore. I would have never tried it if the wind was blowing the other way, so my failure was acceptable.

Yesterday we wanted to retrace our prior little voyage to the Heiterwangsee but the wind was about 15 knots in the cove and another kayak came around the bend to the mouth of our cove and yelled to us that the wind was “big” so we aborted the plan. We discussed it for a minute and I told my husband “no, that wasn’t small talk, he was warning us.”

Wind speed was 12 knots with gusts to 30.

We made note to look it up later so we could match what we believed the wind to be with what it was measured as.

That’s a good way to build your skill set by the way we think. Look at what it looks like, discuss, GUESS, then fact-check yourself later. We are newish but these same processes serve us across a variety of activities.

Often in a group it’s just “follow the leader.”

I’m sure I will say stupid things and make mistakes but I accept that.

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#120

Disagree. Mistake was underestimating the wind strength due to launching in a protected area and then getting blown over when the wind got worse. If your plan depends on the direction of the wind not changing it’s as naiive as assuming the wind speed won’t increase.