I am at the other end of the spectrum - for anything other than the simplest of flatwater trips, I tend to paddle in groups. Groups have rules not to limit your “personal freedom”, but to keep the group safe - hopefully. Abiding by the group’s rules/requirements for things like minimum experience and appropriate gear is the price you pay for the support of the group when things go wrong. To me it is a fair exchange. Paddling in a group doesn’t eliminate the risk - everyone still needs to paddle their boat through whatever hazards await them.
Having said that, I paddle with lots of different groups, and the structure changes depending on the group and the trip. I have close friends that I know and trust, and who share my risk tolerance. In that setting the structure is less formal. I also paddle with clubs for whom requirements are set in stone. Over time I have learned the ones that I can deal with, and the ones I can’t. As Sing said, I’m glad for the choice.
Several years ago my company had a CEO who wanted the company to be more “entrepreneurial”. He did reduce some restrictions on clients and services, but greatly increased financial and operational controls. When questioned he said in a dynamic environment, you need better guardrails to keep the organization on track. Seems counterintuitive at first, but it worked. Same applies as you go up the scale to more challenging paddling trips.
Just like there are individuals that make bad decisions, there are also groups that make bad decisions - it happens. Joining a group does not mean you are not responsible for your individual safety. I have been on plenty of paddling trips where the group ran a rapid, but someone (often me) chose to walk. Good groups will support that. If they don’t, you are in the wrong group.
There are group dynamics that everyone needs to be aware of - peer pressure, risk shifting - but folks with experience tend to manage those better than beginners. That is why having experience appropriate for the trip is so important. There are good leaders and there are bad leaders. I may not know at first, but I’ll figure it out pretty quickly.
When taking a group out I assess the level of experience of each person that I do not already know their paddling skills. Depending on the trip it is the weak link that decides what choices I will be making. I tend to keep close to the weakest link. I learned long ago the trip objective isn’t necessarily reaching the summit, running the biggest rapid, or reaching the next campsite. It isn’t that the goal isn’t important. It’s that the goal isn’t as important as the people.
A point in case of being smart about the group think and avoiding it when you encounter it. My Dad was invited to go fishing with some fellow workers. They would leave out on one guy’s boat from Miami and fish over in the Bahamas that weekend. When Dad got to the dock, they started loading extra cans of gas in the cabin so the cockpit would be clear for fishing. This was back in the day were lots of people were smokers. Dad immediately said that was a bad idea. They blew off his concern. Right then he said he wasn’t joining them. They went without him, and they never came back nor were they ever found.
It was the known safety concerns which were being ignored that keep him from going. If we ignore safety standards for ourselves, we have only ourselves to pay the potential consequences. When leading a group or joining a group there is a responsibility for all to see to the safety of others. He raised his concerns they were ignored, and he made the right choice.
I don’t paddle in groups, mostly because every paddler has a different reason for being there. The only time I’ll paddle with other kayakers is to help them improve, or to help them understand and evaluate conditions.
I avoid anyone who says kayaking is fun or anyone who says speed isn’t everything. I only venture out when I know I can handle the anticipated conditions. What I decide to confront is a personal decision, and I don’t want the responsibility of influencing someone else to confront a situation they may not be comfortable with handling. There really isn’t any comfort in my mind from safety in numbers.
I know my speed potential, how much a 20 mph wind will degrade my speed and how much a 2 mph current will influence the travel time. Many kayakers don’t know and don’t care. If such a person is unaware and is only relying on the expertise of the group, they quickly become a dangerous liability.
I have the patience to teach, but not to be a nurse maid. The exception would be a group of like minded kayakers with comparable skills. Unfortunately, I don’t know anyone locally who has the same interest.
so I just came back from a trip where I knew only two people previously, PJC (kickapoo river) and I had met at a pnet gathering a couple of years ag.o A friend I call pipeline Mike who was working in wv for a time and is now back in the u.p. raft guiding. I boated the vermillion and illinois alone, I hooked up with Jon and PJC from the madison wi boater club and boated with them for several days (token creek, mecan, kickapoo, wis. dells) and Jon passed me off to eric (one of his mad city paddler buddies) for a few more days (crystal, waupaca, mecan). Other folks from their local paddling club joined in on those paddles. I paddled an e.l.f. run on the Peshtigo alone, then up to pipeline mikes for the menominee (easy section) and a couple of rapids on the paint river with Mike and one of his buddies. Then the escanaba alone. Then met rival from the board and boated a couple of rivers (jordan and Sturgeon), and then another river by myself, (the Betsy) and then Toml from the board (St. Joseph and Paw Paw).
For me the formula is pretty simple. I pick places to go that are well within my skillset. I don’t always paddle the same way when I’m by myself- sometimes I want to push myself to go faster longer or harder (upstream), other times I am content to float and take pictures, and occasionally I like to challenge myself running some ww well within my skillset. So I figure other folks may vary a bit as well. A large part of the equation is getting to know other paddlers and their passion. So I adjust my pace and goals around what they want to do. I’m okay with that. In return I get some good conversation, camping, and learn about their style of boating and get a guided tour of their local rivers. I respect it all. Canoers and kayakers can paddle together. WW boats and flatwater boats can paddle together provided you both adjust.
What works best for my paddling partners may not work best for me. We have those discussions before we even hit the water. I’m okay with struggling a bit to try something new ( like a yost canoe when I can’t really kneel anymore) or doing something for a very short period if it is something I can’t sustain for very long. Castoff is right. The people are the goal. We share a common passion- paddling , for me variety is a good thing. Meeting new folks is part of the fun. When I revisit them, we have truly become friends. Where ever you are, I hope we can meet up and paddle sometime. I’ve got no problem telling you no if I think it would lead to something catastrophic. Mostly though, it is all good. At no point did I think I was going to die from hypothermia (my apologies to the o.p.) although I did keep wearing my pfd on a rainy day while others were running the shuttle and huddled up next to a spruce tree.
Pasties, cheese curds, string cheese, ghost pepper mead, and Clyde burgers were more likely candidates to do me in on this past trip…and of course there is the dangerous diluted gator aid but that’s a different thread. You’ll be glad to know that when I drink my gator aid I always wear my pfd! Safety first!
Riding and handling horses is one of the really great examples of a good way to learn how to manage risk. Even as a younger adult. You are managing something that is way bigger and stronger than can be restrained by force if things go over the edge. And once in a while the steadiest, most unflappable horse will do so. Someone apoearing out of nowhere on a noisy bike or a big scary log formation in the woods. They are prey animals so they run, they do not stop to assess how to fight back.
So the person has to prevent things from getting out of hand, or react quickly in the moment. Unless they have been overmounted, it is the humans fault if things get out of hand.
I admire his patience, and teaching skills, and valuing diversity of paddlers and paddling styles. He’s got me thinking about branching out a little from my normal paddling routine. I was also pretty impressed that he could suck up an extra 10 miles and 4 hours when I underestimated the trip length by a mile (er, 10 miles).
Me! I paddle with a purpose. I’ve packed 5 boats and gear only to have four guests paddle 500 yards and stop, put their legs over the side and sit, then tell me how much fun it is.
I don’t really paddle for exercise. That is just a side benefit. I don’t paddle for milage, in fact I rarely even keep track of it. I do find pleasure in developing and honing the skills. I see the boats as not just objects of beauty and function, but more as trusted companions of adventure.
I mostly paddle with people that are serious about paddling and paddling skills. I think of challenging paddling as fun. However, I have been part of groups with very inexperienced paddlers. I have been at the back as sweeper to help out the stragglers, and even towed when it was called for. Paying it forward in a way, that might encourage them rather than dishearten them with paddling. That doesn’t take the fun out of it but isn’t what I paddle for.
What I like best is paddling camping trips with a select group of paddling friends. Day long trips down rivers or out to islands also rank high on the fun scale for me. There are days where I go out and fish from my boats or just lily dip enjoying the day and feeling alive.
Then there is the planning and daydreaming of future adventures when not on the water. The tweaking of the boat and gear to get it just like I want it. They bring with them a certain satisfaction and anticipation that I fine fulfilling.
This seems to be the equation that describes it for me. Water+Boat=Fun!
I agree the pleasure is in learning how to handle the boat and developing the skill. Saying something isn’t fun doesn’t mean it isn’t enjoyable. I love kayaking.
Group paddles to explore or camp are exactly that, but to “me” kayaking is just the transportation. Camping is fun. It’s improvising to the extreme and living high off your skill. Read the threads on cooking in the woods. I love sleeping on the ground, sitting around a campfire. I love hiking, but gave up backpacking. I don’t value pop ups, trailers or mobile homes. I’ve done my share of primitive camping. When I camp, I have no desire to load it into a kayak. That’s just me. I understand the draw and I understand the comraderie.
I don’t link that to kayaking. Kayakimg for me is learning the craft. Its learning the efficiency, how to perfect the stroke, keeping on track, leveling the conditions. Calculating how to use conditions to an advantage. You can’t do that with an entourage. I do other things for fun. Kayaking is my challenge. Most people don’t approach it with the same vigor.
When I camp, it’s out of the back of a car. I enjoy the stories.
