Look on the website
Friend had a new Raven he was always patching it. Seat few times then the combing. He gave up and got a composite. Gelcoat and fiberglass you can fix good luck thermoformed.
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I test paddled a Fathom 2 weeks ago as it is on my short list of kayaks I am looking to add to my fleet, a friend let me use his, it was a LV so I was on the larger size but fit fine truth be told ( 5’7 195 lbs) I would be using it on open waters where ei think it would do very well, the secondary edge was great, I am a new paddler and thought for Sur ei was going in the drink but it just stuck there on edge, that sold me now I just have to find one. The other kayak that everyone tells me to try is a Eddyline sitka , little smaller but slightly wider. I think I want the Fathom but have not tested paddled the sitka. Surprised you would want an open water kayak where you are would have assumed more rivers and lakes there.
Thanks for that bit of info Seth. You and I are almost the same size and weight. I am 5 pounds lighter and 1 inch shorter. I and a friend of mine are both looking at a Fathom LV right now. I told him he could have it if he wants it, but if he backs out I may buy it myself. At 15.5 feet, the Fathom LV may not hold gear for any trips longer then about 3 days, but I have a Necky Chatham17 so if I needed more I would just use it. For almost all my solo camping that’s what I am using.
My reason for the longer larger touring (sea) kayaks is not based on where I live as much as it’s based on where I am going to go in the future. My sister and several friends go to the Oregon and Alaska coasts fairly often, and have asked me to come along. You are correct in assuming that a smaller shorter kayak would be a better all-around fit for lakes and rivers in the Rocky mountains, but those lakes make great training waters for the ocean too.
And the great things about mountain lakes is that you can go camping for days and days around here and sill be uncrowded on all but the most popular. and even those are not over crowded for some of the times you can get on them. You just have to go to the ‘others’ when the large tourist crowds show up. Mountains can create winds quickly, so despite the “smallness” of mountain lakes they can and do get very rough at times and when they do, it can come up fast. Sea worthy kayaks are nice to have when you need to get across waves that were not expected or predicted by the weather service.
But by the time Anna and I feel "done’ with acquiring kayaks for all our needs and also for a few loaners for beginners we have been taking out, we’d expect to have about 6-7 of them and we are doing a bit of up-grading now. We have already bought and sold a few and I have 6 in our boat shed as I write this, but 3 of those 6 are not kayaks we are “married to” so we plan to pass them along as we up-grade.
If you’re in Michigan, you’re welcome to test paddle my Samba, which is now called the Sitka by the new owners at Eddyline.
FWIW, I plan to sell my Fathom LV because it’s not getting used much on big water. I have a CD Prana for that.
There has been a lot of talk about whether the Eddyline seat is comfy or not and as High_Desert said seats are a very personal thing. Seats are also almost always pretty easy to replace with foam and a seat that can be moved fore and aft is of questionable value IMO. I get that being able to trim your boat by moving the seat can be a bonus, maybe, but I don’t see that feature as a deal breaker.
I’m only sorta familiar with the Sitka and I don’t know if the same seat system is in the Fathom but I found the seat back, even when moved down, to be too high and restrictive for my liking. Other’s mileage may vary as I don’t really use a back rest or back band when paddling.
What I am saying is that don’t sweat how the seat feels. That is a red herring for you. If the hull and deck work to your liking you can change the seat. You have tools and are good with your hands. If you test out a boat and the only thing you have an issue with is the seat then you have no issue at all.
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Agree about that seat back. I did surgery on the Samba and removed the seat back and pillar that attached it. Replaced with a backband. My Fathom has a backband but I’d like to replace it with an IR Reggie backband. My Prana came with one and I find it comfortable and easy to adjust on the water.
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I view the Reggie as a solid solution.
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Try to remove a seat base from an Eddyline. I have looked at it quite a lot. Spell out you game plan or how you did it. I have swapped 5 seats on my composite CD boats, cut the combing legs off re-glassed the legs in after moving them back and shortening them, moulded them back to look like a wide base coming from a factory CD. My new boat I’m making new legs. I have added glass on the deck behind the combing to stiffen the decks. I beefed up the floor at the cockpit on the three that are not Kevlar. I wouldn’t tackle an Eddyline Journey seat removal and replacement.
Hmm . . . I’m not sure why that would be. Feel free to send me a private message.
I have removed and replaced an Eddyline seat, specifically the Journey. First I sawed out the rail that the seat slides on, since it sticks up about an inch. That left a ridge about 1/8" high in the bottom. I used a sharp wood chisel to remove that. The 4"-wide 1/8" thick plate in the bottom can’t really be removed, but that’s not a problem.
Next I placed a piece of 1/4" closed cell foam on the bottom as a base for the new seat, to protect the hull from the seat. I didn’t hang the new seat from the sides of the kayak, the way many seats are installed. I simply placed the new seat directly on the foam pad. That also had the advantage of gaining about 1" of needed knee room to make up for the low-angled braces typical of Eddylines.
I wedged foam between the sides of the seat and the hull to keep the seat in place. Finally, I cut out the uncomfortable knee braces and wrapped neoprene around the coaming for knee comfort. I never had any loss of stability with this arrangement.
With my current kayak, also thermoformed, I removed the seat and set it on a foam pad in the bottom to gain deck height and cockpit length by moving the seat back farther. This time I did have a problem when I ran over a submerged tree stump in very cold water and cracked the hull. It’s possible that having the seat on the bottom rather than suspended contributed to the crack (body weight preventing the bottom of the kayak from flexing up over the obstacle?). The 4" crack was very straight and clean and was easily repaired with a thermo patch heated with a hair dryer. The patch has lasted several years now. So yes, a clean crack in thermoformed plastic is easily repaired. A gash would be different.
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I didn’t think the seat would be easy to separate. I’m not cutting thigh braces off better I just sell it if she lets me. I’m not putting a seat in unless it’s attached to the combing legs. Thanks for your method.
SZihn, you asked about Deltas. Here’s my personal take on the difference between Eddylines and Deltas, which other may disagree with. Bear in mind, I’m an intermediate, not expert paddler. I’ve owned two Eddylines and two Deltas.
Material: About the same. Both have substantial, rigid decks and surprisingly thin, flexible bottoms. Thermoformed plastic is a great material (good enough for your car bumper) but it needs to be treated with respect. You can’t hit a rock at high speed, especially in cold water, with any thermoformed kayak.
Stability: Deltas and Eddylines have more or less opposite shapes so it pays to understand them. Deltas are literally three times more stable than Eddylines due to the very large volume in the flared bow and stern and the greater depth. Deltas naturally want to remain upright even in very rough water. Eddylines take considerably more skill to control in rough water, especially with waves hitting you from the side.
Maneuverability: Intuitively I guess Eddyline might have the edge here, but I had no difficulty with my Deltas. The Eddyline is going to go over more easily when you reach the tipping point in a lean turn.
Hatch volume: MUCH larger in Deltas. You can do some luxurious camping in a Delta. You can fit a Helinox cot, table, and chair in a Delta. You can’t take such things in an Eddyline and packing it is laborious, trying to fit everything in and cramming things right to the far ends.
In my opinion, the increased buoyancy of the Delta hull translates to increased safety, and that means you can use a shorter, lighter kayak. Shorter often means more maneuverable for marshes and twisting rivers. I would not hesitate to take the Delta 14 on your Oregon and Alaska trips. It has great glide so you should be able to keep up with your companions. In fact, the Delta 12.10 is the only short kayak that is allowed by tour companies on the Great Lakes and the ocean, because it’s a fully outfitted sea kayak and has great stability. I’ve easily camped with a Delta 12.10 (see photo). If you don’t want a kayak that short, look at the Delta 15.
Finally, there’s the poor person’s thermoformed kayak: the Hurricane Sojourn. The deck is as nice as Eddyline and Delta, but the bottom is a bit thinner. The hull shape is identical to Delta, thus very stable with very large volume in the hatches.
My verdict? Don’t buy an Eddyline without trying it in rough water on a windy day so you understand how the hull shape relates to handling. I would buy a Delta sight unseen—very trustworthy, safe kayak, sturdy, and beautiful. And if I were poor, I would buy a Hurricane Sojourn sight unseen: reasonably sturdy if you treat it right, similar aesthetics to the others, and affordable.
Do also match the cockpit width, length, and depth to your body shape. You should know to the inch what depth is right for you, so your knees are bent comfortably (not forced down by a low deck or low, angled-down braces), you can easily brace yourself against the sides and the underside of the deck, but you also have enough room above your knees (about 1") so you can relax your knees and take the pressure off your hip joints. For me personally, 12" (Eddyline) is too low, forcing the knees down and stressing the hip joint. 13" is comfortable, and 14" is a bit too much, making contact difficult. All depends on your body shape and leg length.
Any questions, send me a message.
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Yes, it’s better not to butcher a kayak cockpit if you plan to sell it. But I find most seats horrible or wrongly placed, so I do modify my kayaks, with good results.
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Making new combing legs for wider seat and will move seat back a bit also.
When I’m done it will look factory.
I paddle a Fathom LV. Im 5’9 165, and it fits me perfect. Also kinda depends on what you’re coming from. If you’ve been paddling a sit on top or a wide recreation boat, it’ll take some getting used to, but the leg braces are perfectly placed for my height and I feel very connected to the boat when paddling. A regular Fathom (no LV) would have my knees pointed upwards by a few inches and I feel that would create some instability, but I highly recommend the LV since you’re under 6 ft. Only thing is, you’ll need to find it used. 2019 was the last year they produced the LV size in the fathom, probably to make way for the Sitka LV. Could save you money going with that model, or used.
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Having corresponded with several owners and users of the regular Fathom, I believe it’s wise for me to follow that advice if I go with Eddyline and get an LV or look at the Sitka instead. I am also scouting around for a Delta to look at, but living where I do, I have to accept the fact I may not have near as many opportunities as most of the other paddlers on this site.
Thanks Jordan.
I started out with a Sitka LT but it never felt quite right. I’m 5’7" and 160 lbs. The Sitka was just a bit too wide which made the fit insufficiently snug and made the boat a bit slower than I had expected. I traded it for a Fathom LV a few months ago. For me, the Fathom is a big improvement. The cockpit is just the right size, so I feel better able to control the boat and it is definitely a faster boat.
Also, the Sitka comes with a full backrest style seat that stick up fairly far. The Fathom (regular and LV) comes with a back band which is much shorter. Thus, the complaints about the Sitka seatback do not apply to the Fathom.
I do see Fathom LVs used from time to time, but if you hunt various dealers, you may get lucky and find a new one left over.
Good luck.
This is interesting. I was originally looking at upgraded to a Delta 15.5 GT but when I saw the measurements of it’s width and cockpit size, I felt it was too wide (haven’t ever actually sat in one) as the dimensions were pretty similar to my Carolina, which I feel is too wide for me. Looked into the Eddyline Fathom, but was turned off by all the reviews and the complaints. While looking at other Delta and Eddyline choices, I came across a pic of the Sitka LT 50th anniversary and just swooned. It “reads” like a better fit, but much like the Delta and Fathom, I’ve never sat in one. Now, I have no intentions of buying without sitting in one, but I was kind of hoping that the Sitka may be a good fit for me. However, if you’re saying the Sitka was too wide for you, then it’s probably not going to make me happy width wise either. Now, I am a little taller 5’10", however, I"m finding that most people my size don’t agree with me in what is too wide or perfect. Oddly enough, I have long arms for my height (wingspan of a 6’0" person), Either way, it sounds like I need a backup plan in case I find a Sitka to sit in and try out, and find it too wide.
To be clear, the width of the Sitka LT was not a problem for me for paddling. Rather, the issue was that the cockpit felt too wide as I was not in close contact with the hip pads. I have a 32" waist and narrow hips. For anyone who is at least a bit wider than I am, the Sitka LT would probably be an OK fit.
I know that I could have simply added padding to the hip pads for a more snug fit. However, the other issue for me was the fact that since I do fit better in a narrower boat, I felt I would get other benefits from a narrower boat, like greater maneuverability and greater speed. Both of which were true for me.
I have no complaints with my Fathom LV, but then I have not seen what others are complaining about. Generally, the reviews for the Fathom LV are positive.
Again, good luck with your search.
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