Elaho & Chatham 16 fit

slow…
I would also tell you that the boat is pretty slow, which is another reason that I ended up getting rid of it.



Check out the review that Sea Kayaker Magazine did a few months ago. They were not overly impressed. Reviews on this board don’t seem to be super either.



Sorry to sound like I am just trying to bash this boat, but I think there are better ones.



Again, I would look at the Chatham 18—its really only 17.5 feet, but in my opinion a much, much better boat.



Matt

fit in composite
did you try it in plastic?

Not too worried about speed

– Last Updated: May-11-05 10:35 PM EST –

I have a fast boat (Mako surfski). For the next one, I'm more interested in ease of handling in high wind and surf, which is what's pushing me toward a shorter boat. I'll take a look at the C18 if I get a chance, but would be more inclined to buy a shorter boat from another builder if I don't go with the C16.

I've read the SK review and kind of thought they screwed Necky a little bit on it. They took a boat that's (AFAIK) aimed at the Romany/Avocet market and tested it primarily with smaller paddlers on flat water. It's somewhat useful but doesn't tell me a whole lot about what I really want to know about the boat.

How hard to change the backband?
The Elaho I sat in had what appears to be a version of the same outfitting, and I also thought the backband setup looked like the marketing to engineering ratio was a little high. It’s nice to be able to adjust while you’re sitting in the seat, but it’s not something that should need to be adjusted constantly, and I think I’d rather spend a few minutes in my yard tinkering with a less-convenient adjustment setup and not have to get past the ratchets to get my feet in the boat.

Regarding SK test
I had email exchange with the designer of the Chatham and he seemed to feel exactly the same regarding the Sea Kayaker review.



The boat is aimed directly at the Avocet/Romany market. It is intended excel in the rough stuff with an ‘average’ size paddler.



By the way, the Chatham 16’s drag figures in the Sea Kayaker test put it pretty close to the Avocet, which would make it faster than a Romany.



That being said, I found the Avocet a boat that seemed more an extension of my body than the Chatham. This would likely vary depending on the paddler.



I do wish Necky hadn’t decided to put in their elaborate adjustable thigh braces and decided to run the skeg cable to that it crosses the rear hatch opening. Plenty of 16’ boats have skegs withut obstructing the hatch in such a way.

can’t figure that one out
when those ratchets showed up they were rusting out everywhere,but why use them to begin with? It’s like the different variations on shoelaces,it’s not an application requiring a high tech solution.

agree
But then, I have always been amused/bemused by a lot of SK tests. More like testimonials, as there isn’t a uniform standard applied, or, standards specific to intended use and/or body size. I love it when they remark on how well a boat rolls. IMO, that is like saying how well it does a sweep stroke. And it is odd how often they claim that a boat doesn’t weathercock. Having paddled the same boats, I have yet to find a boat that doesn’t weathercock.



But as for the Romany/C16/Avocet comparison, yeah, they are all stunning boats. For me, at my body size, the Romany isn’t optimal, it is too tight (painfully so, even in a friends boat with a lowered seat, and he has to wear tight shoes with toes cut off just to use it). Stunning in wind, rarely needs the skeg, good acceleration, low top end, manoevers well when heeled. The Avocet is a favorite, good acceleration and a surprising top end, manoeverable flat or heeled, not quite as good in wind, but easy to correct. The C16 is the slowest to accelerate, even better than the already great Avocet in bigger surf, and equal to the Romany in wind. The thing about the C16 skeg cable is a compromise, as they are truly nearly un-kinkable; knowing many Avocet owners, they all carry spare cables because they kink if you just look at them funny.



The outfitting issue is interesting- the thigh hooks in my C16 fit me great, but can be modified or removed- ie, buy the hull, not the outfitting. But the major reason I did not buy an Avocet is becuase the thigh hooks bite me painfully, but is part of the hull moulding- I can’t change it. To me, the bitching about the C16 outfitting is missing the point, you can change it (as I did to the seat and backband)!





karl

skeg cable kink…
The way to never have to worry about a skeg cabble kinking or breaking is to go with a line/rope skeg. It doesn’t kink and is easy to repair if it breaks. I’m not sure why anyone ordering a Valley boat does not specify line/rope skeg.



Rope controlled skegs are a no cost option on Valley and NDK boats, as is custom bulkhead placement - neither is offered by Necky.

slow/fast
don’t think you’ll find a comfortable, maneuverable boat in rough stuff that’s fast. You give up some of one thing for another.

Rope skegs are not without problems

– Last Updated: May-17-05 10:23 AM EST –

Jim,
Sounds like the rope skeg on your Aquanaut works just fine, however, I would never order one on a NDK boat. I paddled a demo Explorer for a day at MIKCO two years ago and the rope skeg drove me nuts. First, the jam cleat was mounted in a very awkward position for ease of use. Second, the skeg kept "self deploying" at untimely moments. Lastly, I found it difficult to adjust the amount of skeg in the water with the rope/jam cleat. I thought it was just me, but Mr. Maynard indicated that the rope skegs can sometimes be persnickety.
Personally I have not had a problem with slider/cable skegs, but I am careful. I have only had my skeg jam once after a launch. I just had my partner clear it for me.

Safe paddling,
Joe

Valley Skeg
It does take some physical effort and feel getting used to a rope skeg. The NDK skegs are inferior to Valley – this is why some NDK boats (such as my wife’s and one recently for sale in the classifieds) are fitted with Valley skegs.



I’ve found rear mounted cleat keeps it out of the way and is easily reachable.



That being said, the skeg is rarely needed in an Explorer or Aquanaut. Maybe more needed in an Avocet or Romany.

Dagger Meridian…
If you like boats in this class----Romany, Avocet, C16, then you might want to see if you can find a Dagger Meridian. They don’t make it anymore so you would have to buy used or find a dealer than has remaining stock (there are some out there).



I have owned 2 and I think that they are awesome boats. I like it MUCH better than the C16. I find it to be extrememly comfortable and a fantastic boat in every way.



Matt

ditto
that is a very user friendly kayak

Personal Investments
I think people get focused on things about boats that are personal to them. Few people ever think about their limitations as paddlers. Just returned from the West Coast of Vancouver Island where I paddled a borrowed C16 Composite. Took 5 minutes to tweak the thigh braces, had no issues packing around the skeg wire, was in front of the group the whole time, and was the only one to paddle the outer sections in the high winds. I was in probably eight foot rebounding seas, 20-30 knot winds, and caught some great rides on swell breaking off rocks. On the beach I listened to geeks go on and on about kayaks. The point is, they were on the beach talking, and all were slow paddlers. I did not find the C16 any slower than an Avocet or Romany, which I have lots of time in. I’d take the C16 over those any day in the really rough water. I had a ball in the Chatham. As for SK reviews, years ago I did some of those. I agree with the notion that SK did a poor job of that review, as the boat never saw any conditions. What I specifically liked about it over the others I’ve mentioned is a better turn on edge. It’s a looser boat than the Avocet or Romany when way on edge. The thing was bomber in chaotic chop, and caught waves very well. I also liked the hull stiffness, and the skeg worked without fail. Bottom line is buy what you like and paddle the thing. If you think a given boat is fast or slow, or whatever, then it will be just that to you. I can tell you that the goobs in the fast boats with all the techno nonsense were at the back of the pack in the flat stuff, and on the beach when things kicked up. To add insult they can’t even set up a tarp or tie a frickin knot. I’m not overly impressed with sea kayakers. Best to turn the PC off and get on the water in ANY boat, and shut up about speed.

Heresy! Heresy!
How do expect to sell people lots of expensive new stuff with an attitude like that? :wink:



Thanks for the comments. I think of my Avocet as being very loose on edge as sea kayaks go, so it’s interesting to hear of a boat that may be even looser on edge and happier in rough water

NDK/Valley Rope Skeg
Off topic but just to mention - my Explorer’s rope skeg has been very easy to use. As above, it’s a Valley skeg with the jam cleat just to the rear of my hip on one side. I find that it is pretty easy to just reach over and get it with one hand while bing able to hang onto the paddle and keep track of what is going on without having to look at it.



It does take a little time to figure out where partway down is compared to way down, that kind of thing, but the boat has enough rocker that it makes things pretty clear after a bit.



One of the issues with jammed skegs is that the rear of the boat picks up rocks from being pulled around on the shore - we always put our boats into the water rear first and floating.



I have found that some amount of skeg can help a lot in following seas, beam winds and for towing.

I concur
I just spent a week in Alaska in a Valley boat with a rope skeg and I gotta say they are a royal PITA to operate easily. They work well they are just difficult to adjust correctly w/o alot of futzing.



It was a new boat and the shock cord was out of adjustment (too loose) and then the small cord (3mm) cuts into your hand in pulling it up. you need to slam it to get it all the way up. Guessing how far it is deployed took minutes of paddling to figure out.



IMO, a PITA.



steve

I don’t sell kayaks
I have no affiliation with selling kayaks or making them. I’ve paddled many of them. I’m affiliated with some in the instruction end of things. My attitude is my attitude.

Doing a pretty good job of selling me
Actually, I have no real doubt that the hull will work fine for me. Whether it’s the first, third, or 14th greatest thing since sliced bread, I don’t really too much care. My original post really was just specific to the fit and to try to have a standard of comparison to something I’ve at least sat in before committing the great sin of ordering a boat I haven’t paddled.



I appreciate the thoughts.

Fit and comfort
I don’t argue that the Chatham is a great boat. I could how it would be a great boat in rough water-----but getting a boat that you have never sat it may disappoint you. If it does not fit you, or is not comfortable for you (what fits/is comfortable for someone else may not be so for you) then it does not matter how good the hull is. It’s like having a great pair of running shoes that are 2 sizes too big for you.



I guess you have your mind made up though.



Let us know how you make out when you get the boat.



In the meantime I guess that I need to work on my paddling since I am obviously no good since I consider hull speed to be a factor…