Euro paddle-Greenland paddle--hand

that’s the problem.
I think they look great and can read about the advantages/differences. Just want to try one out or try to build one. With a Euro paddle, you know what you are getting for the most part.

Looks like you do have to spend the money or time to build before you can make any kind of decision because as I am reading, it is an acquired taste as opposed to instant gratification.



Paul

EJ?
Alex,



Who’s EJ? Any tips on the vertical sculling roll? Next one I’d like to learn/play with…

Based on your measurements…
… then it’s pretty easy to recommend an 86" GP with 19-20" loom. 3.5" max blade width (good first/primary paddle width, my next may drop to 3.25 or 3" for variety). You could email Don Beale your info and see if he agrees. Great guy to deal with.



Tell you what - If you get one that size from Don and don’t like it - Solid WRC or laminated - one piece or two - I’ll buy it from you! (but a one piece solid WRC should be the cheapest and great 1st GP - most traditional). An 86/20 would be nice if I build a SOF. The Superiors being more expensive (and since I already have a pair) I can’t make the same offer - but you do fall into their standard sizing options for the carbons (more sizes in wood).



My Superior is only a little bigger and if we ever manage to meet on-water you can try it out (Advance warning - this is as dangerous as a new car test drive :). It has a ton of bite once you get it dialed in. Size difference will mainly affect cadence. The lightness (light as a carbon racing wing paddle) and buoyancy (it floats with 1/3 submerged, actually pushes back a little mid stroke, and jumps out of the water at the release) will blow you away compared to what you use now. If Kim is along (or I remember to bring it) you can try her Beale too. Her loom’s a couple inches too short but the blades are close enough to right length to give you an idea (though hers are 3.125" wide - and closer to 2.5" on her 80" from Sing! That’s a fun one to use!).



If I get another Beale for myself it will probably be a two piece for travel (one you go GP it really sucks to have to use Euro rental paddles!), laminated for weight savings/strength, have the same size blades Kim’s has (but with 4" more loom) to give me a higher cadence lighter pull cruising paddle with a bit less power than what I have now. 2" shorter and .375" narrower than mine now. Subtle difference, but adds up over distance. No paddle budget though right now - available funds need to buy wood for the SOF now that I just about have a spot cleared out to start. (Note that I will consider building a qajaq but still buy my GPs. Maybe next project…).

instant gratification
Actually, I liked my GP right off. Felt a little “slicey” at first, and definitely different, but I had a functional forward stroke going in minutes.



What comes over time is the deeper sense of connection with the water, the seamless blending of strokes, the catch and stroke becoming silent as you improve, the variations of strokes you develop, the additional speed you find… Several sort of “Aha!” moments along the way as it keeps getting better and better (and that’s not even including the rolling!). You don’t fully realize the changes until you use one exclusively several months to a year, then try a euro again and see how much you want your GP back! Hard to beat for touring, and I’m comparing to top end paddles like Epics and Werner carbons.



Oh yeah, I have an EPIC mid-wing paddle you can try too if you haven’t tried one before. Yes, you can roll (and more) with a wing - just requires a bit more attention maybe - but super solid for sweeps.

Length comparison
My GP is 223.5cm/88", but I like euros 8-10cm shorter, around 215cm



Difference is GP has LONG blades. Fully buried for full power (hands wet) or less to vary the gearing so to speak.



A euro is designed to have blade fully submerged always (but not overly deep) and partially burried baldes are considered bad technique. Not so with GP.



With an 86"/218.5cm GP you’ll have the equivalent of say a 210-215 Euro but with much more variability of how you can apply power (but don’t take that to mean they are radically different - they are still paddles and more alike than not).

EJ = Eric Jackson
Eric Jackson is the current freestyle kayaking world champion and the owner of Jackson Kayaks. He has a tape called ‘EJ’s Rolling and Bracing’ which is a rolling video which really helped me develop my hand roll.



As for the vertical sculling roll, there is the easy way and the hard way. As you use a greenland paddle, the easy way is to do it like you with a Euro paddle. Basically you setup the paddle vertically, do a quick vertical draw stroke (slice out and pull in) and use that force to snap the boat upright. The vertical sculling roll done in competition with a Greenland paddle involves a standard scull while steadily rotating the boat around and crunching on to the foredeck. I’m not very good at forward finishing rolls at this point so I’m still not very good that that particular roll. If you can do any sort of vertical paddle roll, you know that you are getting the kayak upright using 90% hipsnap and it’s not much of a stretch to bring in some proper form to dial that into a hand roll.

no exposure to don beale
i hear great things from greyak.



to throw another name out there for you,

kurt hoffman of midwest kayaks makes a hell of nice paddle he did a beauty for me earlier this year. a sitka spruce custome model. epoxied tips.



http://midwestkayaks.com

home made
found a couple of people who have some woodworking tools etc. I am trying to talk them into making the rough cuts at least for me…shouldn’t be a hard job at all considering, and I will take the time to sand and oil etc.



dimensions I am going with (If I talk them into it) are 86" length, 19" loom, and 3-1/2 inch blade.



We will see!



Paul

Good luck!
Should be a fun project.



Be sure to take a very close look at the cross section shapes on the plans. There’s more to the GP than a closer grip and longer skinnier blades. All those shapes do something. Paddles I’ve tried that have all the key elements (with some variation of course, but identifiable) paddle well, those that miss them don’t seem to measure up.



Such a deceptively simple thing as a GP would be considered pretty advanced if it were recently designed and patented!

we’ll see
if I succeed in at least finding a woodworker to try…not expecting much and will have to get together with you one of these days to take a look at a “good” one.



paul

Greenlannd Paddles
http://www.wolfgangbrinck.com/boats/paddles/index.html



Here’s another source for you and also a lot of info.

Traditional width
of the loom on a GP is aproximately the width of the paddlers shoulders. That said, I use a 20 " loom though my shoulder width is more like 18". Overall length of the paddle is, standing and reaching up, fingers should curl over end of paddle to second joint.

the day of the test
I will handle my first greenland paddle today. am very interested in seeing if it meets up with all the hype. I sure hope so because they are really really cool looking and I want one!

er…I understand they are more efficient for touring and on the body and that you can practice safety combinations better…etc…yeah that’s it…(practicing for my wife…)



Paul

greenland paddles for sale?
Got a chance to try one out and realy liked it. Seems as if it would be really good for extended touring. so of course I want one.

does anybody know of any used sources for greenland paddles? I haven’t been able to find anything out there.



Paul

used would be difficult to find…
You would be more likely to find someone willing to give you on of their old paddles. Buy a solid cedar Beale paddle. It’s only $150 + s/h for the best paddle you will ever use. Compared to the pricier (and prettier) laminated paddles or carbon ones that cost upwards of $300-400, that’s a bargain.

Used GPs …
… must be pried from the stiff cold fingers of their dead owners, but it’s probably in their will to be buried or burned with them! L



I have seen a few sold - very few. I’ve seen about as many given away (thanks again Sing!).



Keep looking Paul, but Beale’s the way to go - and my offer to buy it from you if not satisfied (including shipping) still stands. Of course Don has his own guarantee and would take it back too - or re-carve - or… Just suffice it to say he stands behind his work.

talked to Don
via e-mail. He is pretty swamped and maybe around September…which ties in with my finances pretty well…I just want it NOW! damnit!



(never was very good with the patience thing…)





Paul

well, I guess you have to carve than!
Look at the instructions posted above. Seriously it takes maybe 8 hours and total cost will be under $30. I carved a couple paddles out before I bought the beale. They were functional and they taught me how to paddle greenland style but I appreciated the beale paddle even more afterwards. I still plan on carving more paddles in the future now that I have a paddle to aspire to.

I kinda liked the
pry from dead fingers part…Maybe I can get Greyak out in a boat again sometime soon and borrow his paddle just long enough to launch a surprise strike?

then I get a carbon paddle to boot…





well it was just an idea…



P

You do realize that…
… the little short wooden stick/paddle I had on deck is for throwing harpoons, right? I also carry a knife… L



GP is pretty deadly to. A snip from Greg Stamer over at QajaqUSA: “… there’s an interesting story involving Svend Ulstrup, the Danish kayak builder, that he related to me last summer in Ilulissat. As I recall, he was paddling with a Greenland seal hunter, and Svend was out with a camera. While the hunter was off pursuing game, Svend spied a large seal resting on ice and stealthily paddled over to it, as close as possible, to get a good photograph. Bad idea!



When only a few feet away, the seal awoke with a start and charged directly toward Svend (perhaps it was cornered, I don’t know). Acting on instinct and self defense, Svend raised his paddle and brought it down squarely on the seal’s head, killing it instantly. After awhile the hunter came back empty handed and was amazed and surprised to see the catch. Although I imagine that it earned him respect from the hunter, Svend expressed regret for having moved so close to the animal and the outcome. As I recall, the seal was used for dinner and the paddle was not broken.”