euro vs greenland kayak paddle question

I understand the differences between these paddles. I’ve read that the greenland is less strenuous since there is less water pulled per stroke. Wouldn’t a euro paddle be just as endurance friendly just by paddling more slowly? Paddling slowly with a euro vs quickly with a greenland seems like the difference between exerting little force at low speed vs exerting little force at high speed. Would the latter necessarily be less strenuous? Thanks

I’ve owned and paddled both. Neither paddle is less or more ‘strenuous’ than the other. Paddles with more surface area in the water are going to work you harder (slow down your cadence more) than smaller paddles regardless of their greenlandness or euroness.

There is probably a stroke rate that is optimum for you.
Unless you are a lillydipper, going nowhere fast, the impact on your body is different with a wide blade and a narrow one at that stroke rate.
I have a bum shoulder and can paddle longer without it complaining with a narrow blade.

thanks

I find the difference between Euro and Greenland style paddles comes at the beginning of the stroke. The load from a wide/short euro seems to come on “Right Now” while the GP load ramps up a bit more slowly.

Is the grip the same between the two types?

If doing a soft catch with a Euro Paddle instead of a continuous constant stroke, then a Euro paddle will not be so sudden and hard on the catch point. And then the two {Greenland and Euro} will both be close to the same strenuous level {given the paddles are sized equivalent}. The difference will show up when doing a continuous stroke without a slow catch. Then the gradual loading of the Greenland Paddle will shine and the Euro will have a more sudden shock at the catch point. {BTW Both will interact with the same amount of water if the paddles are made using that as one of the criteria.}

@Rex said:
I’ve owned and paddled both. Neither paddle is less or more ‘strenuous’ than the other. Paddles with more surface area in the water are going to work you harder (slow down your cadence more) than smaller paddles regardless of their greenlandness or euroness.

Says Rexness!

Would someone comment on the correct way to cant a GP? I think I’ve seen it stated here both ways; the top of the blade canted forward and back. The cant ostensibly to create some lift and increase efficiency. Just for fun, I tried it both ways. Naturally, the top of the blade canted forward can be problematic. With an exuberant stroke you could end up wet, so I’m thinking top of blade canted rearward is what most use. What say y’all?

Greenland paddles can have the same surface area as a “Euro”, and with either one you aren’t “pulling water”, you are planting the blade and pulling your kayak and body past a largely stationary blade. IMO, the typical Greenland grip, with a narrower hand position leads to less weight lifted per stroke and is one reason your shoulders feel better after a long trip. Having said that you can adopt a similar stroke with a non-Greenland paddle. It’s a technique trade off, raw power versus long-distance comfort and efficiency. Even wing paddle racers lower their arms on long races. I have a blog post with my thoughts at http://www.gregstamer.com/2012/02/12/greenland-paddle-wing-paddle.

Greg Stamer

On a side note…Congratulation {Greg Stamer} on the win for class 2 for solo paddler in the Everglades 300 mile race. {completed just a few days ago} {VERY IMPRESSED}

Thanks Roy! Conditions were pretty good this year, over-all. As per previous years I’m already having “post-traumatic EC dreams” where I dream all night that I have impossible distances left to cover, in nasty conditions, and am hugely relieved upon waking to realize I’m done and can just relax. :slight_smile:

I think the poster’s question is essentially “Is a slow cadence as good as a fast cadence for endurance?” I come from a road bicycle background and my bikes have gear ranges suitable for long climbs and descents in the mountains. A cyclist’s cadence preference is dependent on different things… body type such as predominantly fast-twitch or slow-twitch muscles; fatigue levels (legs vs heart and lungs); terrain… up or down. Hell, the song playing in your head can affect what cadence you want! My solution in the boat is to carry two paddles with significantly different surface areas; high and low gears… pick the cadence your body tells you it wants.

@music321 said:
Is the grip the same between the two types?
No, the grip is different due to the shape of the paddles. With a GP, you encircle the loom at the base of the shoulder with your thumb and forefinger. The rest of your fingers curl over the shoulder of the blade. During the stoke, your lower hand hooks (not “grips”) the paddle and pulls it while the upper hand pushes against the blade (again, not “grips”). Except when conditions are really rough, your grip on the paddle is loose and relaxed. In fact, if I stopped paddling the the middle of a stroke, the paddle would fall out of my hands.

@magooch said:
Would someone comment on the correct way to cant a GP? I think I’ve seen it stated here both ways; the top of the blade canted forward and back. The cant ostensibly to create some lift and increase efficiency. Just for fun, I tried it both ways. Naturally, the top of the blade canted forward can be problematic. With an exuberant stroke you could end up wet, so I’m thinking top of blade canted rearward is what most use. What say y’all?
For a forward stroke, a GP should always be canted with the upper edge forward. With a proper grip (see above), this happens automatically if you keep your upper wrist straight. This helps to submerge the blade quickly at the start of the stroke and produces lift during the stroke. It also dramatically increases the “bite” of the blade in the water. At first, it will feel unstable (because the blade dives), but once you get the hang of it, it feels very powerful compared to just dragging the paddle through the water.

Canting the blade it the opposite direction for a forward stroke is unnatural and basically a waste of time. The only time you do this is when sculling or rolling, when you want the blade to stay on the surface or pull you toward it.

@music321 said:
Is the grip the same between the two types?

No. I’m all over the shaft and blades on a Greenland paddle.

Some good technique info on the Qajaq USA site at http://www.qajaqusa.org/Technique/Strokes.html.

Greg Stamer

Not gripping the shaft and moving your hands along the shaft serve the same purpose with both styles of paddle, do they not? Less tension, less wrist movement, extend a sweeping blade.

@CapeFear said:
Not gripping the shaft and moving your hands along the shaft serve the same purpose with both styles of paddle, do they not? Less tension, less wrist movement, extend a sweeping blade.

Except the European paddle blade is wider. Gripping the blade is awkward. But on a GP we touch everywhere from tip to tip. The shoulder of the European blade catches things the GP does not.