Poles
don’t need trekking poles even though these might be the best option. Anyone have any suggetions for a good set of poles to put up a small tarp as kitchen area and general housekeeping area?
Paul
try using your spare paddle
you will be suprised how well in works with tent stakes
l love my "girlz gone wild"
women’s only trekking poles. Obnoxious, yes. But at $8.63 in the REI sales bin, I can live with them, and no, I do not feel my masculinity threatened.
not with easy paddling
I usually use a pancho when it’s raining, and I don’t have any trouble staying dry. How big is the pancho you’re thinking of? What I think of as a pancho comes down almost to my wrists, and has buttons on the sides to keep them closed.
If I want to paddle real hard, then I’ll tuck the pancho in some so it’s not flapping all over the place, and I get a little wetter that way. But with easy paddling I can stay perfectly dry.
One possible difference, I’m in a canoe and sitting up a little - in a kayak, you might have to tuck it in to keep from dragging the ends in the water, and therefore get wet on the arms. I don’t ever see you getting your sides wet, however.
You are still raising the non-working
– Last Updated: Dec-19-08 8:52 AM EST –
blade as you take each stroke. At the end of your stroke, the working blade(lower blade) is raised into position for your next stroke. It now is the non-working blade(upper blade) and acts as a fulcrum for the next stroke to continue. The idea that you really aren't lifting isn't correct. It's not the working blade that is being lifted during the paddle stroke, its during the recovery. During the stroke, the working blade probably is not getting the benefit of the lighter paddle. This is for akayak paddle, but a canoe paddle would be different since it is only lifted just above the water during recovery. In a sit and switch, it would be lifted and crossed to the other side every 5-10 strokes, so the work performed would have to be figured out through a different formula. Though there might be some advantage here...not a physics guy so I can't say for sure. Maybe an analogy that works is imagine bench pressing 250 lbs. It isn't that easy. Now, imagine benching 250 lbs, but only raising it 1/2 lb at a time. Not as hard. Every ounce over a long period of time does require the same work, but when you break it up over a period of time, it is easier. A paddler with a stroke rate of 50-60 strokes a minute will be able to lift a lighter paddle longer than a heavier paddle. Yes, my arm will still weigh the same, but I'll take those carbon feather weights anytime over the course of a long distance, especially over an expedition setting.
Paddle Weight
Another thought on paddle weight: It effects taller people more dramatically than short/regular people. Since you paddle with your arms stretched out, the actual downward force on your shoulders is the weight times the length of your arms. Just like those shoulder exercises where you straighten your arms and lift up, only you keep them outstretched most of the day.
I’m 6’3" and find that after a few hours with my crappy heavy paddle I’m constantly putting it down and taking a break becuase my shoulder muscles, not my core, are tired. Any short/regular people want to say that their heavy paddle leaves them happy? 
look at total work done
Once again, this argument is misleading because it extracts one small part of the overall job and focuses on the effect of a lighter paddle on that one part. If you look at it in the context of the overall work performed, I think you’ll find that the effect of a given paddle weight difference is actually LESS for a taller paddler.
I don’t doubt your anecdotal evidence about how much better you feel when using a lightweight paddle versus your crappy-heavy. However, I think there is a natural tendency to exaggerate such differences in our minds. I remember back in my running days how much better (and faster) I felt when I first bought a pair of light-weight, high tech running shoes. But, for some reason, my time in the 5K improved by only a few seconds, if at all.
How could that be? The shoes were a full 8 ounces lighter EACH, and, as the salesman had said, in a 5K run you raise and lower a foot about 7-8,000 times, for a total weight savings of 4,000 pounds, over a period of about 15 minutes. That HAD to make a big difference in my time. But somehow it didn’t. And the reason was that, however big 4,000 lbs sounds, it is small when compared to the total quantity of ft-lbs of mechanical work which goes into a 200-lb body running 5K.
On the subject of a taller person paddling, the effect of a 23-ounce paddle versus a 7-ounce will be less OVERALL because of two things. First, the taller person requires more work simply to move his own body through the motions of paddling. (Based on average people, not necessarily you and me - according to standard height/weight tables, a male who is 6-3 weighs about 20 lbs more than someone 5-9.) Second, the taller person has a longer stroke and thus lifts the paddle less for a given distance traveled. These two factors are much larger than the one factor you focused on, the increased load of having to carry the extra 16 ounces a longer distance.
Let me also give brief answers to the others who posted:
wrhester – My point wasn’t that you aren’t lifting the off-side blades, but that the effort of doing so is miniscule in comparison to the effort of pushing the onside blade through the water. An extra 16 oz of paddle weight increases the total work done for a given distance traveled by only 2-3%. Nonetheless, that 2-3% will still add up over time, so I agree with the conclusion of favoring the lighter paddle – only, don’t fool yourself over how much advantage you are getting thereby. Also, if you are tight for money, don’t think you are at a great disadvantage and cancel your trip just because you can’t afford the superlight paddles.
Bryanhansel – That’s an interesting way of looking at it. Actually, the paddle does move some and not stick in place, but there is enough stickiness to make your analogy work, if you compared it to something like pulling on a thin branch of a tree that moves back the harder you pull. However, the advantage of looking at it as a displacement of water is that a physicist could calculate an exact number for mechanical work performed based on the weight of water and quantity and distance displaced.
Norm – I’m not as good as math as I’d like to be – if I was, I’d be able to define this problem precisely and prove what I’m only able to hint about. I’ve had just enough math and physics training to spot the basic flaw in the weight-lifted argument (that it doesn’t look at the whole picture) without being able to correct it. I was hoping we would have a real physicist come along and set the record straight, but no such luck (so far).
As to paddles breaking, the guy planning his Miss R descent next year just recently posted that he broke his new carbon paddle on his first outing. Several people posted in his thread about breaks or disabling damage. Also, when I bought mine a few years ago, I started a thread asking for examples of breaks and there were about a dozen people who had broken them between here and another message board.
Further, when you are on an expedition, you are going to have times when you are fatigued and not thinking 100% straight, and those are the times when you might break a carbon in silly ways (brace against a rock bank, try to push off a grounding, step on it at camp, etc). Also, you’re not going to have the luxury of sending it off to be fixed while you wait.
Thus, I think this is an important consideration in planning an expedition. Even though I’m trying to correct what I think are out-sized expectations of how much better it is, I think the advantage of a carbon is enough that you probably want to start your expedition with one. If you have the funds and are planning to have close support on your expedition, I think the advantage is enough that also want to have a second one in the hands of your support crew, so they can get it to you if you break yours.
I think you DON’T want to have a 7-oz carbon for a back-up, because the risk is too great that you’ll break both paddles and be in real trouble. On the other hand, you want your backup to be close enough to your primary that maybe you’ll pull it out to use in high risk situations, and thus prevent breaking your primary paddle.
I think you DON’T want to use your carbon as a tent pole in camp.
And, finally, if you can’t afford a carbon paddle, I think you don’t need to cancel your plans – it’s not that big a deal. You can easily compensate by simply traveling 5% less each day, and still have a perfectly wonderful experience on your expedition.
Greenland paddles
I will paddle with greenland paddles. One spare on the front and another two piece on the back.
Paul
Great points all around here
Memphis, I agree with you that the result of using a lighter paddle is a small percentage and shouldn’t change your plans if you are using a heavier paddle. At a certain point though, a log is still a heavy log and much harder to paddle with than a lighter paddle. I’ve used heavier paddles on longer days and done just fine in enjoying a great day of paddling.
Take a look at this and tell me he wouldn’t wish for a lighter paddle. Photo taken by a friend of mine while in Ethiopia.
http://s170.photobucket.com/albums/u259/bhester_01/?action=view¤t=7e5c0859.jpg
But probably wouldn’t notice the difference
hope for no waves
That’s a pretty heavy load. That’s about what I look like going camping, I tend to overpack 
good stuff on the other thread too
on camping routines.
Paul
got some goodies for xmas
gaia deck bag for one. sweet!
Paul
I can carry a lot in my tandem canoes…
but I prefer to keep it as light as possible:
Paddling gear:
Minimum 2 paddles, canoe pole, PFD, bailer, 5 gallon bucket (for blue crabs, crawdads, bait), painter.
For shelter:
Small tent, ground cover for tent (not a necessity as the canoe is big enough to sleep in over a spring) lots of line, a large but lightweight tarp, a minimum of necessary clothing, sleeping gear & air mattress (a necessity due to spinal surgeries).
E/M gear:
1st aid kit w/sewing kit, splints, band-aids & bandages, alcohol, h2o2, self-wildcrafted herbal concoctions, decoctions, pastes & powders.
Signalling devices: CD, LED flashlight.
Sun protection:
Wide-brimmed hat, sunglasses, sunscreen, lip balm.
Necessary toiletries:
Soap, toothbrush & paste,‘Wahoo’ paper (t.p. to northern folk), entrenching tool, trash bags, rags & towel.
For cooking, SMALL campfires,& lighting:
Lighters & matches, lighter knot, grill w/ folding legs; a minimum of cooking/dining ware; scrub-sponge, rags & towels; a rough-sanded, epoxy-coated 24"x42" piece of plywood as a cleaning/cooking/dining table (sits crossways atop the gunwales for in-boat chores & dining); hatchet & machete; extra batteries for the LED home-made waterproof lights I use to light up the spring pool I’m camping either on or by.
Nutrition & water:
The only food I’ll carry are my daughters’ home-made pemmican, gator jerky, & banana, mango, pineapple or mixed fruit bread. I use condiment packs for honey, jellies, hotsauce, mustard, etc. For fresh food I will forage, fish, & trap. I also bring along daily multi-vitamins.
My potable water I carry in 2 - 1 gallon jugs, refilling them after sterilizing (by heating) then letting cool the water I get from springs.
I know it sounds like I’m crowding the canoe (it’s 16’9" l.o.a.) but with careful packing I can move all the gear fore & aft and still have plenty of sleeping room in the boat for my 6’3" body amidship.
Santa brought me
two collapsable buckets!
(Thanks, Santa! How did you know? 
coffee
Have to have a French Press coffee maker !!
Gulfcoaster
I am very very interested in pemmican. Do you have any special processes or ingredianets you use for it?
Basic pemmican as I understand it is rendered fat, dried berries and dried meat. (jerky pulverized into a powder form?)
Paul
Knots in your Head
I suggest plenty of good rope and a mess of knots in your head. Throw away those webbing straps and force yourself to learn knots. Knowledge takes up no room and weighs nothing. And of course rope has double - triple - infinite uses!
Beyond the basic Cliff Jacobson, Bill Mason, Derek Hutchins stuff, look at what they take and substitute modern materials. Stick with wool if you’re cooking over fire. Then add a GPS and an LED headlamp.
If you’ve loaded more than 100 pounds into your boat before you step into it, start throwing stuff away.
100lbs???
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I am at 22lbs and bitching about it for:
solo tent with tyvek ground sheet
8 x8 silnylon tarp for kitchen and living
snugpak 40 degree sleeping bag with coolmax liner
thermarest chair kit
100 ft para cord in several lengths
small alcohol stove kitchen with 1 liter denatured alcohol, small scrub pad, soap, miniature folding grill, towel and msr pot
orikaso folding bowl and 2 sporks. (fire when i can, alcohol when I can't.
first aid kit and toiletries bag
1 change nylon convertible pants and nylon shirt, 2 paddling wicking t shirts, teva combo running and water shoes, 2 neck guard caps, 2 pairs underwear and 1 pair of wool socks all compressed in a small bag.
North water vest: Pentax Optio W60, marine radio, small emergency kit, small first aid kit, whistle, horn, pack of three flares, magnesium fire starter, Freestyle 2 gig mp3 player, 2 cliff bars, orange tube tent, 25 ft Para cord, river knife. Sunscreen and lip balm.
Palm 7.5 meter tow belt
Storm cag
Cabelas Manual activation inflatable pfd over the Northwater vest. (this is a maybe. I like my stohlquist pfd a lot in which case the vest woudl go over this.)
Gaia deck bag holds cliff bars, multi tool, telephone, steri pen, gps, camera, pre printed maps etc. otc like tylenol or tums,
I want to use pemmican as a mainstay with other dehydrated items for sustenance. Lots of Ramen without the packet but with dehydrated vegetables like cabbage, onions, tomatoes, carrots and a few packets of the chicken or seafood foil bags. And of course the obligatory jar of vegemite!
I have a 4 liter and a 6 liter msr dromedary bag and a 100 ounce camelback on the deck that i can load up with water if i really need to have that much between stops. (but this drastically pushed the weight up)
even with water and food for a week and a half i can't see getting over 70 lbs though.
Paul
Making pemmican is a skill…
I have never mastered but at least two of my daughters have. I’ll be seeing one of them soon and if I can get a few of her pemmican recipes I’ll pass them along.