I see some experienced people going on trips / expeditions and wonder about all the gear they have lased to the top deck. I’ll probably never go more than a two day trip so it really is not a concern for me. When I look at all the stuff they have on deck it looks unsafe from center of gravity stand point and from being hit with a wave situation. I usually have a smaller tapered deck bag but some kayaks look like container ships the way the deck’s loaded. I guess it depends where and how how rough it can get. Thoughts on this thanks.
I agree with you; if you’ve got to have that much gear along, you might need a larger boat. When the wind and waves get big, I sure don’t want a bunch of stuff on the deck. I prefer a clean deck always. My avatar picture tells the story.
Jon Turk and Boomer were not on a typical expedition (if there is such a thing). They had some extremely short mileage days dragging their 13 ft kayaks behind them through broken ice. An 18 ft plus kayak is probably more typical for expeditions, with anything heavy or wind-catching stowed in hatches not on deck … emergency gear at hand as appropriate. As you likely know, Jon nearly died with kidney failure at trip’s end.
Most experienced people I’ve met go with only the essentials on deck.
Up front I keep a paddle float, spare paddle, pump and chart/map. Back deck is always clear for easy re-entry.
My day hatch has the other things I might want to access while on the water.
anecdotal story:
On one of my early on paddle trips, soon after learning out the benefits of olive clips , I used them for everything - and apparantly - too many things.
I had a net deck bag attached with 4 olive clips - with a few pieces of gear inside.
On going through the surf early in the morning, I got flipped.
I tried rolling several times on each side - unsuccessfully, finally was able to.
I discovered that the deck bag has become loose and was acting as a ‘counterweight’ to my rolling back up.
I still use a (net) deck bag - but will remove it or empty it when going through surf or in very heavy conditions.
first day of the trip it all gets stowed nicely, by the last day the deck looks like rummage sale. The first item that decides not to fit is always the sleeping pad,
I find both in my paddling and camping/hiking circles, most people take too much crap along with them, like they’re preparing to go to the moon or something…I like keeping things paired down to the essentials in general, with absolutely nothing on top of a kayak deck save those essentials someone mentioned above(because it’s just eh, safe for one thing(BTW, any of these “expedition” pictures you’ve seen ever show anybody say, rolling with their bedroll/cooking gear at bow or stern?) If I find I need more stuff than kayak hatch space allows, I take a canoe! (But even these, I’ve seen plenty overloaded as well.) There is also to take into account what one considers an “expedition” in length–A few days? A few weeks? Months??? And the “where” of that “expedition”: Planning a trip to completely isolated unforgiving regions where one has to fly in(like say the Canadian Artic)requires some vastly different provisioning and planning than what a bunch of people hanging-out tent camping around a semi-isolated lake for a week does. And packing whitewater “expedition” boats (I’m talkin’ 12 feet or under)for multi-day trips, takes a bit more cleverness than making everything fit in a full-on 16-18’ kayak.
In general, mobile, light and unburdened as possible, without too many “extras” along is the best way to experience all IMHO–The trick is to do so without
“roughing it”;-
PaddeDog52 - you are definitely right to question stuff on deck and balance. Having stuff on deck is not preferable, but if you do, hopefully it is the right stuff.
When packing a kayak, you want to keep the heavier things as close to the bottom of your boat as possible. To help in front/back balance, you also want them as close to the cockpit. If you do need to have things on your deck, it would be preferable to have light items, like sleeping pads, put there, as they are least likely to upset the balance.
On the other hand, on some more glamping trips, there is gear that has to go on deck just because it won’t fit in to boats. I lead overnight/few night trips for a local outfitter and we usually bring griddles, 2 burner Coleman stoves, and roll up tables. These won’t fit inside even the large doubles we use, so usually end up on the back deck of a kayak.
On my personal trips, I don’t have anything (besides the standard gear I have there - spare paddle and pump) on deck.
In my former life I worked as an outdoor educator, and we’d typically go sea kayaking for 3-4 weeks at a time, and carry all our food with us. Never had anything on the decks except the typical paddling gear, and maybe the odd umbrella or two. We didn’t have light gear, used 4 season tents, and often zero degree synthetic sleeping bags. None of the food was freeze dried, there was usually about 550 lbs of it at the start of a trip, and as instructors we’d often supplement rations for ourselves with extras like onions. Somehow we always got everything inside the boats. Didn’t hurt that we usually had singles with about 200 liters of space and doubles with 340 liters of space, but you learn to utilize every nook and cranny such as next to and behind seats, in front of foot pegs, and the far ends of the boats. I would attach a few feet of p-cord to my small items that lived in the bow and stern so I could pull everything out without having to fish around too much. Occasionally we’d stuff extra food bags in the cockpit for a day or two until we started to make a dent in our food. So I think I could pack at about two months of food and fuel into a 200 liter sea kayak, would be running pretty low for the first week or so. I think the only thing I’d attach to my deck would be if traveling in places that required packing out poo bags.
how much more difficult is it to roll with a packed kayak and nothing on the deck?
I would attach a few feet of p-cord to my small items that lived in the bow and stern so I could pull everything out without having to fish around too much.
Like that idea!
Funny looking at my Current Designs Nomad 200 liter vs. the tandem Libra 185 the size is close for liters of storage. Libra has nothing listed for center compartment which is large. CD Solstice is almost 200 also. I want to pack my Extreme / Nomad with some weight and see how it feels. Was going to try it a while back but never did. Easy way to secure sand in bags to try it or use other ballast?
My Seals contoured deck bag which is on deck has two Paddlers Supply deck lights if I stay late, bottle of water, sunglasses, gloves and pogies, snack bar. Don’t want back deck to have anything in case I have to get back in.
My normal deck bag carries knife, flares, horn, 550 cord, water bottles, first aid kit and wallet/keys, etc. Sometimes it includes a fold up saw. It is no bigger than a hydration pack a runner would wear. I use it as a “ditch bag” at cafes on the water. Nestled next to the pump under bungies it stayed in place at a surf launch…er…unlaunch. We have lashed cast iron frying pans and kayak carts (expected portage) on the deck. The normal deck bag breaks waves that get past the deck forward. The rest just gets in the way and scratches the deck. But they have their uses. I have capsized in the surf, and launching the new boat at a bulkhead. But never on a loaded boat. It gets more stable loaded.
@PaddleDog52 said:
how much more difficult is it to roll with a packed kayak and nothing on the deck?
Once you have the knack, no more difficult to roll a properly loaded boat. Key is you don’t want stuff moving too much that will change the weight distribution.
Some may even say it’s easier. Small adjustments are needed sometimes, like a bit slower getting everything rotating and such. Having lots of weight in the bottom helps for the last stage.
The folks who do the WaterTribe Everglades Challenge carry enough gear to be self-supporting for their 300-mile trek from Ft. DeSoto to Key Largo. You might find the WT required skills assessment interesting as it raises some good questions. It’s the same for the shorter 67-mile event that starts the same day. Class 1 is expedition kayaks and canoes. Class 2, racing kayaks and canoes.
http://www.watertribe.com/Events/SkillAssessments/Default.aspx
@Rookie said:
You might find the WT required skills assessment interesting as it raises some good questions.http://www.watertribe.com/Events/SkillAssessments/Default.aspx
Good stuff. I’ve added paddling with flooded hatches to my own list of things to practice soon.
@Sparky961 said:
@PaddleDog52 said:
how much more difficult is it to roll with a packed kayak and nothing on the deck?Once you have the knack, no more difficult to roll a properly loaded boat. Key is you don’t want stuff moving too much that will change the weight distribution.
Some may even say it’s easier. Small adjustments are needed sometimes, like a bit slower getting everything rotating and such. Having lots of weight in the bottom helps for the last stage.
I find that the more gear I have in my kayak, the easier it is to roll. When loaded, my kayak spins on its axis like a big round log, and rolling upright is effortless. When my kayak is full of gear, I can lay it on its side with my side, shoulder, and one ear in the water, and I barely need to scull to hold that position. Then I can pop back upright with a light brace.
I’ve never strapped any gear on the outside of a kayak. I do a lot of long unsupported whitewater kayak trips, so I’m pretty good at getting a lot of gear inside of a kayak. I pack heavy gear on the bottom of my kayak and close to the cockpit, and keep the ends of my kayak as lightly loaded as I can.
Here’s a way to pack gear in a portion of a kayak which typically isn’t used for gear storage: I put a flat dry bag on the floor of my kayak in front of my seat, and hold it in place with a bungie cord hooked to a D Ring glued to the floor of my kayak and to a pair of padeyes screwed or pop-riveted to the front of the kayak seat. I put heavy items and items I want to be able to get at easily during the day, such as hiking boots, in this dry bag. I mound up the gear in the middle of the bag, between my legs, and only pack a thin layer of gear under my legs, so the dry bag won’t interfere with getting my thighs in and out of my thigh braces. Here’s how that looks in my Prijon Yukon Expedition. I do the same thing in my Prijon Tornado and my Prijon Rockit.
Another way to make use of the space in the cockpit of a kayak is by installing a bungie cord pocket or net under the top deck of the kayak, right in front of the cockpit. I stash things under the bungie cord which I want to be able to reach while I’m sitting in my kayak seat, such as a throw bag, a warm hat, or a bilge pump.
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I take the Extreme on most of my camping trips, and you can fit plenty of provisions. I keep the deck clear except for a spare paddle. I find it rolls easily with or without a load. I’m careful to put the heavy stuff at the bottom of the hull with lighter stuff on top to hold it all in place. Both waves and wind are going to act on anything on the deck in addition to the center of gravity piece. And that deck sheds water quite well to keep spray out of your face. Things on the deck tend to counteract those properties as well if you find yourself paddling through steep short-period stuff. Not often a problem, but I’ve pulled my hand pump off of the front deck for that reason in the past.