Female intermediate paddler-which kayak?

Have to chime again I guess.
Length comes up a lot and since Celia mentioned it:

“If you are trying to keep up with others in sea kayaks you will likely want at least at 16 ft boat, 17 or so wouldn’t hurt.”



I want insert something that has been posted before by brazilbrasil (and probably will be again).



"this comes from the kayakacademy.com website…



http://www.kayakacademy.com/seakayak.html





Length, Waterline, Tracking & Maneuverability



“In my opinion, long sea kayaks are over rated. The longer a sea kayak is, the less efficient it will be at typical touring speeds (say 3 to 4 knots). Some long time paddlers will need to read that again. There is a common half-truth in the world of sea kayaking that longer boats are faster, and this is so deeply ingrained in the heads of many sea kayakers that they can’t understand why they have a hard time keeping up with friends in shorter kayaks. Some of these misguided folks have even gone and bought kayaks that are longer than their last one, only to find they have even more trouble keeping up. The problem is people tend to assume that a kayak with a faster hull speed (top end potential) will also go faster at half throttle, however, the opposite is generally the case (when comparing boats from 14 to 19 feet long). A monster truck with a big engine may be able to go faster than an economy car, but which could go farther on a given amount of fuel? And if it were possible to measure the rate of fuel burn when both vehicles were cruising at 70 mph, the big truck would be the less efficient one (working harder to go the same speed). If you rationed the big truck to the same amount of fuel per hour that the economy car was using, then the truck would end up being slower even though it has a higher potential top end speed. In the case of boats, the longer a boat’s waterline length (the length from where the bow meets the water to where the stern exits the water), the more surface area is in contact with the water (wetted surface area). And at the speeds most sea kayakers tour at, most of the resistance holding you back from going faster and making you work to maintain your pace is the friction of water sliding along the wetted surface area of the hull. The more wetted surface area your hull has, the more friction you have to overcome. So if someone barely has enough power to keep up to their friends who are just cruising at an all day pace, putting this person in a longer kayak (with its greater wetted surface area) will just slow them down even more. Conversely, it often helps the group go faster if they swap boats so as to give the weaker person a shorter kayak (provided the shorter kayak isn’t also wider or poorer handling etc.). From here on please interpret “length” to mean the waterline length, as comparisons of length overall are meaningless (except when it comes to fitting a kayak in your garage)…”



and also:



“So if a longer kayak won’t necessarily make you go faster, what about the other “advantages” to long boats? Another common misconception is that long kayaks track (go straight) better than short ones. While there may again be a some truth to this (though maybe in this case it is more like a tenth-truth than half-truth), the more significant factor is the shape of the hull rather than it’s length. Some hull shapes track poorly no matter how long the boat is, while some short kayaks track just fine. Anyhow tracking by itself isn’t always a good thing. You want a kayak that makes it easy to keep heading the direction you want it to go, and that requires a balance between tracking and maneuverability. If a wave, breeze, or current sets your kayak off course, the stiffer it tracks the harder you have to work to get it headed back on course. So you want a kayak that tracks well when it is on course, but maneuvers easily when it is off course.”








Female intermediate paddler: which kayak
"So you want a kayak that tracks well when it is on course, but maneuvers easily when it is off course."



I have seen some opinios in the reviews section of this site, but do you have a favorite in mind? Also wonder what hull shape is better suited to speed. Thanks for links too. J

Some favorites…
I am virtually your size. (5’4", 125).

I like the Impex Mystic the best of all I’ve paddled (see my recent review). It has enough storage for a weekend trip, longer if you’re a minimalist. I feel like I am wearing the boat, not paddling it which makes me forget where one ends and the other starts. It is nimble, tracks like on rails, and holds an edge beautifully. The decks are low and I have no trouble with rentry. It rolls easily, too.

The Impex Mountauk is just 2 feet longer and the cockpit is just a hair larger but I don’t find that I gain more speed in it, though it carries more stuff.

For longer trips I paddle an Eddyline Nighthawk 16 which also tracks well and holds a ton of stuff. It required a bit of outfitting to fit as well.

If you decide to build a boat, well, that opens open a lot of new possibilities and probably…another addiction. :slight_smile:

Eddyline NIghthawk 16.
please don’t take this as an attack but if your experience is a 10’ SOT,are unfamiliar with the function of bulkheads and you’re looking at responsive/rollable closed deck boats you’re back to being a beginner,albeit with experience paddling a 10’SOT. The issue of high back coamings is overrated if the seat is at the proper position.

The chatham 16 is really ideal for 175lb paddler although it will feel exceedingly stable for your weight.

I like the Eddyline Nightwawk 16 because it’s a very slippery shape and with your weight will make a good big boat.

Why we like foam bulkheads…

– Last Updated: Oct-08-05 3:04 PM EST –

Why we use foam bulkheads?
In my opinion, glassed in bulkheads are not the way to go. I feel 2-3 inch high density foam bulklheads bonded with the CORRECT adhesive are much safer. Picture your boat riding in on a wave to a rocky shore landing...loaded or not. If there is a rock protruding when the water washes out and your boat comes down on that ridged, stress riser, hard spot of a bulkhead, there is a very good chance of either cracking the hull or bulkhead or if nothing else the joint may unbond leaving a spot that will leak forever leaving you to glass it again. Thereby starting the whole cycle anew. Glass it stronger? Hull will break.
Foam bulkheads done correctly do not leak, all but eliminate hull/bulkhead damaging force if/when it occurs in this area by having a larger hull contact area which defuses the force by absorbing it not futilely trying to resist it. They also provide added passive buoyancy if the boat becomes swamped. If they do blow out from hydraulic forces beyond our control they can be punched back into position and be effective. You may also diffuse your own stress here too. How about finding a whale rib that will not fit? Punch out the foam and slide it in. I have been installing these in my TIDELINE kayaks for over 10 years now without a single problem. I also can give you examples of rigid/glassed in bulkheads blowing out and cleaving boat.

Another reason we do not like glassed in bulkheads.
One scenario;
You punch a hole, not a giant gash, just something tiny that allows water into bow of boat and slowly takes away your ability to safely control boat.... forward area floods. Applys to rear too.

Foam bulkhead:
Kick out slightly to allow water to run to Cockpit - pump out.
Foam bulkhead still stays in place ( or can be pushed back into place) to control flow and offer positive flotation in worse case. Reseal after trip or overnight on trip.... moisture HELPS cure silicone.

Glass bulkhead:
Can you kick it out? Possible worse damage to hull / deck? Once broken it's no longer functional until repairs can be made.......dry out, cut out, layup again (PITA), wait for cure. Little or no positive buoyancy offered by bulkhead material.

Yep. We are working on a new…
boat for smaller people. Have the aft (inside) deck height @ just over 6" and forward @ 9" but going to bump the fordeck up a bit to be more practical … have it listed at 11" but that will probably the total height as measured at TOP ( outside ) of coaming. Still tinkering here. Final design will be done over pretty soon once my chief ocean tester is back up to speed and ready to chase the bumps again.

my boats and I’m your ht and wt
I’m your exact height and weight and know what you mean by “nothing over 50 pounds”. Among my 7 or 8 boats, I have a Kevlar Slipstream (love it - not greatly fast, but wonderful for the ocean) at 43# and a QCC700 kevlar at 48 or 49# (really fast and handles like a dream). A note here in that they say/suggest that the QCC700 is for 160# and over, yet when I tried one after reading reviews here about other females having no problem with the 700, I loved it and had no problem at all.

Great job!
"Since I last posted and did a bunch more research, I have 6 picks:



Necky Chatham 16

Impex currituck (in 2004 was called pursuit)

WS tempest 165 pro

or maybe eddyline nighthawk. "



That’s great job for 2 days of research. You nailed a very good list of potentials!



I’m a little lighter but about the same height.


  • WS tempest 165: I quite like it! Outfitting is pretty good right off the shelf. Handles quite nicely. I only tried the plastic version of the Tempest 165. It’s supposed to be the exact same haul shape and “should” handle pretty much the same. I keep hearing rumors of small quality issue with the Tempest though…


  • Chatham: I found the Chathem a little on the big side in terms of volume. Though surprisingly, the outfitting seem to fit me quite well.


  • Eddyline Nighthawk: I paddled it quite a few times. I really can’t say much about how the HAUL performance because the cockpit is soooo large that I swam in it. So there’s no body control to speak of. On the water, however, I hear LOTS of positive comment about it, from other female paddler who’re a little larger than me on the hip. They found the outfitting just about right. The price really can’t be beat!



    Other boats to add to your list:



    NDK Romany LV: I’ve tried the “regular”, not the LV version. It’s pretty impressive. But I don’t really like the rope skeg. Just can’t get the hang of it.



    Velley Avocet: My favorate! Paddled it a whole bunch in different kind of condition. Great outfitting, great handling. Very responsive yet tracks very well. Low deck == low windage, also don’t have to worry about banging my knuckles on the deck. Great construction quality to boot.



    As for camping, I can fit everything I need for a weekend camping trip into any of those boats and still have rooms to spare.

Female intermediate paddler
Tomorrow I am going to try a NF Legend. Supposed to be similar to the explorer celia recommends but has higher volume. I think it will be too big and advanced for me, but we’ll see. The silhouette would probably be better but no one is selling at the moment-hoping to buy used. My latest list of possiblties is now:



Necky Chatham 16, WS Tempest 165 Pro or Sparrowhawk; Nigel Foster Silhouette, Eddyline Nighthawk 16; Current Designs Slipstream; Surge; P&H Capella 163 or Vela. Also see there is NDK romany LV for sale in NJ. Hope someone is ready to sell! Jean

Don’t forget
Valley Avocet (see my post a little further up)

I’ll keep plugging the Impex
Mystic or Montauk. Although I love my Nighthawk 16, too. :wink:

female
OK I’ll add the mystic/montaul and valley! Can’t ignore a good rec!

Just remember
to let us know what you finally wind up with. OK?

One dimensional thinking
When manufacturers stop making shorter boats wider than longer boats - all that will make sense.



Until then the longer boats are narrower, and so all pretty much equal out between 3-4 knots. No real penalty for the length. The longer hulls will let you exceed that more easily.



Someone the poster’s size could do nicely in a sub 16’ kayak - if it were 18-19" max beam instead of 22-25"!



Beam is as important, if not more, for speed/drag/effort. As is the relationship of draft to both measures. All need to be balanced.

female
OK!

With all due respect
that doesn’t seem to hold true for the Impex kayaks anyway.

The Impex Montauk, at 16’, has a 22" beam (same as my Eddyline Nighthawk 16) while the Impex Mystic, at 14’, has a beam of 21.5.

Go figure, huh?

Brace against foam?
Can you brace against a foam bulkhead?

Exception not the rule
The Mystic is one of the very few (the Vela being the ONLY other I’m aware of) sub-16’ boat that has a sub-22" beam. Most of the other sub-16’ boats comes with over 22" beams! Floating bathtubs, from my prospective.



16’ seem to be the watershed point where the narrow boats begin. To get to 20-21" beam, you actually have to go longer than 16’! So, yes, longer boats are faster. Not because of hydrodynamics, but becasue of economics.

Why defend poor fit?
Both are too wide for a smaller paddler wanting decent performance.



My 18’ kayak is narrower than either at 21". My shoulders are wider than my kayak and it fits me very well with very little outfitting.



How many 5’3" 120 lb paddlers can say that about their production boats? The fit they get in a 22" beam sea kayak is the equivalent of what I would get in a fat and deep rec kayak.



My girlfriend is in the size range of this thread. For her to have the same feel/experience I have in my 18’x 21" kayak she would need to be in a boat about 16.5’ x 18". 15-20% narrower than either you mention.

Foam v. plastic bulkheads
The bulkheads that CD uses are a thinner, harder stiffer plastic than the older fashioned foam bulkheads like I had in my CD Squall. I liked those and had no problem with them - they were thick and resilient. In fact as above I recommend them for plastic boats.



For FG boats, I’ll still take FG bulkheads so that I know I can brace against them without having to worry. I can’t take pegs on my feet anymore - the foam is just more comfy.