Curling bow wave…
…is probably due more to the shape of the hull and how it deflects water than anything having to do with hull speed. My solo canoe creates a tiny curl coming off the when moving at high speed (I can’t see it but I can hear it), but my guide-boat does not. One thing I have seen, though, when watching a great variety of boats on the water is that the stern wave always gets disproportionately large when the speed of the boat nears hull speed. That may have something to do with the fact that at hull speed, the wavelength of the bow wave matches the length of the boat, so the bow and stern waves become superimposed (creating a taller wave at the stern).
High foredeck
>4. Higher foredeck for knees up paddling/rotation.
Paddling a GP, we part company on this one. The low foredeck is great with GP! I understand your desire as it relates to racing, but not being a racer I like the better fit/control I can get with it as is. With high/open setup I’d be throwing braces in stuff I can handle without paddle action at all now.
My Inuk has a high foredeck and I occasionally paddle with a GP(my low gear in high winds). No problem. A small foam block glued below deck provides the support when needed.
Paddling with the legs up and pumping works like a charm with a GP.
Oh and here’s a few ‘high foredeck’ yaks you guys might find interesting:
http://www.sportzhub.com/ruahine/kayaks.htm
/Peter
Curling
Yeah, I don’t think it is, necessarily, just something I’ve noticed. Someone else commented on that aspect of the Caribou when they were taking boats for a test drive, either back in the dark recesses of this board or on usenet.
Although I’ve had trouble visualizing all this stuff, the diagonal wakes are not the waves that govern the hull speed, the latter are apparently more like “rolling humps” that are perpendicular to the boat. I read that in one of Winter’s writings on the subject (though he didn’t use that term for them).
I read somewhere yesterday that when a boat approaches hull speed its displacement increases. This would make the diagonal wakes bigger I guess.
Mike
Hey greyak
Sounds like a Razor for trilobites02 wish list.
- less cargo room: Y
- lower rear deck for EASY layback rolls: Y (with thigh straps added)
- angled bulkhead: N (I don’t know)
- higher foredeck: Y no problem its all open
- narrower paddle entry: Y, by a lot
- rudder housing: Y (under stern or over back option)
- backband: N ( I guess you could put one in if you really wanted to)
- optional tiller bar: Y (much better for powerful forward stoke)
I will write a review shortly on the boat, I’ve been testing it in some flat water and some snarly bay conditions. so far it favors the flater water, but its been fun playing in the rough stuff nonetheless.
The QCC 700 is one of the best all around boats I’ve paddled. but isn’t it wider in front of the cockpit than behind? After the Razor it seems like such a big boat, I mean big.
A Razor?
Hmmm. Seems vaguely familiar to me, I think I’m familiar with its stern view.
Inuk-great alternative to the more mainstream choices. Fast, HARD tracker (My size 12s don’t fit with booties.).
As for the QCC 900 in the works and wish lists in general…
“Do not worry if you have built your castles in the air. They are where they should be. Now put the foundations under them.”
~Henry David Thoreau
Build away, and let the games begin… 
Q700s widest point (and others) pic
– Last Updated: Oct-15-04 12:25 AM EST –
It's actually pretty close at front rear of cockpit on mine. It's definitely narrower up where you plant the paddle.
Look at the this image showing top views of Epic 18, Q700, Glider, Extreme, and (since the thread owner has one) a Caribou "S":
http://www.AppliedEccentrics.com/kayak/kayakform.jpg
Clearly the Epic and QCC are swedeform - the others fishform in increasing amount top to bottom. The Epic is exaggerated as the width behind the cockpit is carried well aft, and this makes it look even narrower up front. This view also reveals something about the difference in design intent between the Epic and QCC (cross sections would tell teh real story). I'd venture that the Epic is a bit narrower than the QCC up front, but if you cover the image from mid cockpit aft you'll see it's not as extreme a difference as at first look.
Of course swedeform decks to not necessarily mean swedeform at waterline - but as far as planting paddle closer to keel the deck is what matters.
(Note: Photo shows original Q700. I have the version with the cockpit 8" back from original - and 3" back from current production - On older and newer it will be a bit narrow still at paddle plant - but still pretty even over length of cockpit).
The Caribou is
said to be of symmetrical form on the CD site. I’ve always found that picture interesting, because it makes the cockpit appear to be almost completely aft of center. It is not, on my boat, which is a 2003 model, I’d estimate it to be at least half a foot forward of that.
Make me wonder if they’ve messed with the design along the way, perhaps they experimented with that before adding the skeg, then moved the cockpit back forward a few years after the skeg was put in. I’ve not read anything about that, though.
Mike
Excellent observation, Mhackett
While a boat’s design can potentially restrict the speed of a strong paddler, no boat can make a weak paddler fast. All the talk about the nuances of a particular design is relatively meaningless to all but the racer crowd. I daresay that most paddlers cannot push their boats to the limits of their performance envelope for any length of time, due to the lack of the necessary strength and fitness. I certainly include myself in that group. I find that I paddle at pretty much the same speed, regardless of the boat I’m in, though I do have one boat that’s slower than the others.
The bottom line is that it’s all about the “engine”.
I bet your right…
… and the picture of the 'bou is pre-skeg. Seems like QCC’s not the only one with outdated product photos (wrong cockpit location, deck rigging, hatches, and rudder on theirs!).
Some say fish/sym/fish based on midpoint of overall hull - others based on paddler position. One makes sense hull design wise (but should then be referring to shape in the water, not above) - the other regarding paddle plant (which was how I was using it as that was the main issue being asked).
It does have the “S”
– Last Updated: Oct-15-04 2:07 PM EST –
on the back deck, and if you look closely I think you can see the skeg control. So I don't know what to make of that picture, really. Maybe they just intentionally distorted it, though for what reason I cannot fathom.
There's a picture of an actual pre-skeg boat on this page, you can see that the cockpit is almost exactly centrally located. Mine (skegged) looks just like this:
http://webpages.charter.net/wsmith16/seakayak.html
Yeah, not sure why QCC doesn't fix their pictures. Perhaps they are ashamed of what the new rudder looks like when retracted. ;-)
Mike
L
QCC could always show the skegged version! Mine looks so much cleaner without that appendage and related hardware. Then they could show just tail end rudder closeups elsewhere on the site - as it looks the same on all models.
Right on the “S” pic - I didn’t look that close, just plopped them all in there and tried to keep sized approximately proportional. Still - that shape/location does explain a bit about why the 'bou paddles so nicely backwards! L
QCC is Great in Rough Water
QCC700 is spectacular in rough water if you are the type of paddler who puts a premium on speed. It flies upwind and then really excels surfing waves downwind.
For forward speed it will blow away Brit boats in any condition, except for towing over ice flows.
It’s just another thing
Mike, sorry for that haunting experience, if you were the paddler that I passed between the Esopus Light House and Norrie Point State Park earlier in the season. I saw a yak a ways down the river from me and it became my goal to catch up with it. I wish I had a 700 but mine is only a 500, but it is still fast enough to be fun on the river. The GP I was using was the first one I built, a bit rough, but a strong paddle to pull on. The next one is a bit thinner with more flex but much more dynamic. So much for inspiring lines equaling speed. I guess I have a good engine.
Ed III
We are now entering the
Twilight Zone… Yes, that was me, and yes, I could tell you knew what you were doing out there and had a good engine.
I have to confess I’ve engaged in a few undeclared races like that myself, but this was the only one I’ve been on the wrong side of, so far.
Hopefully I’ll see you out there for a rematch sometime…I was using a too-long 240 Camano at that time and now have a 210 so look out.
Mike
I don’t know how many times I have …
…been humbled biking or paddling, when I come around a bend in the river, or road and see a fellow pa(e)ddler up in front, and decide to catch up only to have the front guy fade off in the distance.
Cheers,
JackL
What Boats Do What Speeds
If people who like to work their muscles, and people who will be totally honest will post their times on Mountain Wayfarer’s site, we’d all have a better idea about which boats are capable of what speeds:
http://users.frii.com/uliasz/wayfarer/virtual_race.htm
When I go to the local lake there ain’t a soul there to rat race with. If folks will be honest, I can compare myself with people all over the world.
Tooly?
Good morning guy
the only hitch with that is you won’t get a true comparison, since most paddlers who race will have a slightly higher (as much as a half a mile per hour)time than when they are not racing.
I know lots of time when I am training, I get discouraged with my times. Then I get in a race, and over the same distance seem to go much faster.
I guess it is the adrenalin, or the competetiveness, or whatever, but for me that is the way it is.
Absolutely
– Last Updated: Oct-16-04 2:21 PM EST –
You read my mind, Jack. Several years ago my buddy and I were training for Mt Mitchell and we went to the local big, steep hill to train. When we went up separately we went pretty fast. When we went up together we went very, very fast. We're competitive animals, aren't we?
But... if John Q Kayaker takes his Tempest out on a calm day by himself and does an individual time trial... then we're comparing apples to apples, so to speak, on Mountain Wayfarer's site. (as opposed to folks posting their race times).
Biked about 40 miles with my buddies this morning on my old Centurion. Didn't think I'd bike again after that encounter with the dog. Guess I just love it too much to quit. Time for another cup of coffee!
Have a good day.
Yep