the boat im looking at in the carbon Kevlar version also has the p&h keel strip. its a cetus hv.
anybody have experience with these products.
from what I understand carbon Kevlar will be stiffer and lighter, so my question is related to durability and longevity,repairs etc...
thanks.
P&H doesn’t even claim stiffer
From their own website:
Glass fibre - Diolen
Our most widely requested option balances weight, stiffness and durability. It offers superb impact resistance and can be easily repaired if damaged. The deck is also glass fibre with added reinforcement around the cockpit (for deep water rescues) and footrest mountings. It offers superb resistance to impact, abrasion, puncture and tearing. Our toughest, stiffest and most durable construction, suitable for the most challenging expeditions or hardest working coaches.
Kevlar Carbon
Our Kevlar carbon hull construction is lighter and Our toughest, stiffest and most durable constructionmore resistant to puncture than our diolen glass fibre construction. This construction adds kevlar Carbon to the hull and combines glass fibre and kevlar carbon the deck making the finished product around (3lbs/1.5kg) few kilos lighter than a glass fibre - diolen kayak. A great combination of lightweight, strength and rigidity.
Lightweight Kevlar Carbon
Using even less glass and replacing it with more kevlar Carbon this is the ultimate in lightweight hull constructions. Saving approx. 4.5lbs/2kg over glass diolen - Some durability and stiffness is lost compared to a heavier construction due to the reduction in materials used and we recommend a keel strip is used with this option.
I have a 2003 carbon kevlar Capella. Other than a tree landing on it during Frankenstorm Sandy and putting a couple holes in it, knocking out a bulkhead, the coaming eventually popping loose, etc, which I had repaired by a local guy for a few hundred bucks, she’s held up well under normal use. He didn’t seem to take issue with the material as far as repair work is concerned. I do a lot of surf paddling in the Capella, so I think after 10 years, I can say the P&H carbon kevlar hull has worked out fine.
He builds kayaks and canoes, and seems pretty knowledgeable about the materials. He talked some about seeing very pretty carbon boats built with a low grade, low modulus carbon that he felt was inferior. He wasn’t referring to P&H.
He didn’t get the carbon/kevlar weave. He wasn’t sure how the different properties of the 2 materials weaved together like that would compliment each other. He liked the idea of layers vs. a carbon/kevlar weave.
A friend had picked up a carbon/kevlar Pilgrim about a year ago, and a typical bump from another kayak practicing rescue stuff put a hole through it. Quite the shock and disappointment. My friend thought the carbon/kevlar just wasn’t up to the task. And it’s hard to argue in that case.
But I’ve taken quite a share of bumps and tumbles in the Capella with that carbon/kevlar weave construction, and other than a tree falling on it during a hurricane, she seems to be holding up.
“Our toughest, stiffest and most durable construction” is about all I need to get from the manufacturer to choose fiberglass/diolen for myself if I were just to choose. But they’ve proven to me that they make a good carbon/kevlar product that stands up to a decade of use so far.
Which Carbon/Kevlar?
Lightweight - Opaque gel coat hull - looks the same from the outside as Fiberglass but lighter by 8lbs. according to the literature and the P&H weights are generally conservative. Similar strength and durability (some will argue pros/cons) to fiberglass
Ultralight - Clear Coat outer gel coat. Carbon/Kevlar cloth visible. Trims another 3lbs. or so off the weight vs. Lightweight layup. Scratches do show and requires a bit more care.
Expedition Carbon Kevlar (generally not advertised state side and special order only)- Opaque gel coat hull - heavier than the fiberglass layup and darned tough and stiff.
Which flavor are you looking at?
Good choice on the Keel Strip. It volunteers itself for the abuse of everyday scuffs/scrapes. That's usually a feature I order for all the stock P&H Cetus' I order.
See you on the water,
Marshall
The River Connection, Inc.
Hyde Park, NY
www.the-river-connection.com
hudsonriverpaddler.org
PS: just read your other post and saw the Options you were looking at. Normally those additional options of CK Hull, KV Keel Strip & factory installed compass is about $900 in savings. Who doesn't like leftovers, eh?