finger problem

Hello everyone. So yesterday I finished my first big trip (report to come later). Unfortunately, the trip was ended a little earlier than what was planned, for a few different reasons. The main reason, though, was that I was starting to lose feeling in my pinky. When I touch it with my another finger, it feels like it is asleep and is tingly. I still have full mobility, but the tingling worries me. As a violinist, I need my hands. Does anyone know what this could be? Should I be worried? Also, does anyone have any suggestions as to how to avoid injuries like this? Thanks a lot in advance.

Chris

Possibly, Carpal Tunnel Syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpal_tunnel_syndrome



Caused by overuse and bad wrist “posture”



Do you use a straight or bent shaft paddle? Many use bent shaft for ergonomics to avoid nerve compression in the carpal tunnel.



Do you use padded gloves or a padded grip pad on your paddle?



Feathering your paddle and certain paddle strokes/techniques may lead to lots of wrist “flexing” which contributes to the problem.



Did you build up gradually to the “big trip”? Did you notice any “danger signs” during shorter trips?



The best way to avoid carpal tunnel syndrome is by keeping the wrists straight when exerting with them. Next is ergonomic tools/equipment and padding.

i hope not
Thanks for the reply. I was looking into carpal tunnel, and it says that it usually occurs in the first 3 fingers, whereas I feel it in my pinky, which is more related to the ulnar nerve. Could I have just pinched the nerve or something like that? And to answer your questions: some of the days I did wear padded gloves, but the first I did not. I have done a lot of canoeing for fishing and stuff, but never long distance canoeing, so we should have worked up to it. And, my tingling sensation started pretty suddenly at the end of the fourth day of paddling. Isn’t carpal tunnel a pretty gradual thing? Thanks again for the reply, and hopefully this is just a simple problem.

Chris

With CT, my thumb and the index and

– Last Updated: May-25-08 12:17 PM EST –

middle figers went numb, not the pinky.Surgery fixed those 3. Sometimes my pinky goes numb;don't know why.Someone yesterday said he heard that using a Euro paddle contributes to CT. oops!

100 to 1 says you were squeezing
your paddle. I have the same problem when I tow a kayak or a canoe. When it starts I recognize it and start paddling opening the push hand as I paddle every stroke. Solves the problem and helped me recognize when other paddlers have the sleeping finger problem. I have noticed paddlers tend to squeeze the paddle in the beginning until I see them but mostly towards the end when they are fatigued.



Try it!



Paddlin’ on

Richard

A couple of suggestions
Gripping the paddle shaft too tightly can cause a wide variety of symptoms, including numbness and tingling in the fingers, especially if you only paddle occasionally and then paddle every day for several days.



Are you powering the stroke with your arms instead of torso rotation? If you’re pulling the paddle with your arms, you have to grip it tightly, whereas with torso rotation your hand and arms function more to hold the paddle in place and you don’t have to grip it as hard.



Also, try pushing forward with your opposite hand during the forward stroke. The shaft rests between your thumb and forefinger and as you push forward with your palm, your fingers actually open and relax. Then when you put that blade in the water, your hand closes around the shaft to hold it in place as the blade moves back. So you can actually open and close your hand as you paddle, which improves circulation and flexes the joints, tendons and ligaments so they don’t seize up and put pressure on the nerves.



The other suggestion is to try and stay hydrated, which keeps all the moving parts lubricated and makes you less prone to strain injuries.

loose grip
Also, go to a sea kayaking symposium, take a forward stroke clinic.

A different paddle might help.

ulnar nerve
I’ve had a lot of problems with my ulnar nerve. A feeling of numbness or tingling is often caused by a pinched nerve - which could be 1. stemming from entrapment where the nerve originates in the spinal column with bone spurs or 2. even where the nerve passes or even pressure from muscles pressing against the collar bone (google TOS) or 3. could be nerve entrapement behind the elbow - called cubital tunnel syndrome where the ulnar nerve passes through the cubital tunnel which is a bony passageway (think funny bone) - or 4.nerve entrapment where the nerve passes through the bones of the wrist, pinched by a ganglion.

Some of these problems are similar to carpal tunnel which is a repetitive motion injury. If it is a continuing concern - do contact your doc (advice i don’t often give)

And, yes, do keep a loose grip on your paddle.

38 Special sums it up


You see it all around you

Good paddlin’ gone bad

And usually it’s too late when you, realize what you had

And my mind goes back to a paddle I left some years ago,

Who told me,

Just Hold On Loosely, but don’t let go

If you cling to tightly,

you’re gonna lose control

Your baby needs someone to believe in

And a whole lot of space to breathe in



It’s so damn easy, when your feelings are such

To overprotect her, to love her too much

And my mind goes back to a paddle I left some years ago

Who told me,

Just Hold On Loosely, but don’t let go

If you cling too tight babe,

you’re gonna loose control

Your baby needs someone to believe in

And a whole lot of space to breathe in



Don’t let her slip away

Sentimental fool

Don’t let your heart get in her way

yeah, yeah, yeah,



You see it all around you

Good paddlin’ gone bad

And usually it’s too late when you, realize what you had

And my mind goes back to a paddle I left some years ago,

Who told me,

Just Hold On Loosely, but don’t let go

If you cling to tightly,

you’re gonna lose control

Your baby needs someone to believe in

And a whole lot of space to breathe in



So Hold On Loosely, but don’t let go

If you cling too tight babe,

you’re gonna lose it

You’re gonna – lose control

yeah, yeah, yeah Just Hold On Loosely but don’t let go

If you cling too tight babe,

you’re gonna loose control



Hold on Loosely, but don’t let go

If you cling too tight babe,

you’re gonna loose control

yeah, yeah, yeah

Same here
I get the same problem - in my case it is caused by the paddler’s death-grip. As others have said, I practice alternately opening and closing my hands as I paddle. When I’m tired or stressed is when I stop and the numbness arrives. I recently picked up some nice spongey-stretchy neoprene diving gloves that reduce the problem somewhat. Best gloves I’ve used so far:

http://www.cressi.it/easyStore/SchedeVedi.asp?ProdottiID=335

thanks
Thanks a lot for the replies. I am sure that I was gripping too hard. I should have done some research before just jumping into a big trip. I planned and researched everything except the canoeing fundamentals, which should have probably been where I started. Live and learn I guess. Hopefully the damage is only temporary.

Chris

whatever you do
don’t ask a friend to “pull my finger”

As another violinist

– Last Updated: May-26-08 9:15 AM EST –

Amateur, but as my lack of boat time can attest this spring a pretty committed one...

That tingling is a precursor of a serious tendon issue. For violin players, it can start in the outer fingers of the hand from playing alone. And it is a huge warning to immediately stop and get it treated before it goes further.

While a death grip on the paddle and (I suspect) a paddling technique that is too much about pulling (OK - wrong on this part) could have been the direct cause, you may be at the point of needing to generally look at the biomechanics of your playing as well to promote more relaxation. As we get older and have more use that often needs to be reset a notch.

I would strongly recommend some accupuncture to get in front of something serious now, if you can afford it. I've gone that route a couple of times when it seemed that I was headed for a wrist/hand problem that would affect my playing, and in my case anyway it worked great.

no pulling or pushing with arms
should be involved.

The upper arm just provides a stable support, no push. Think muscles are providing tension not pushing, similar to holding a push-up. Care must be taken to lift the elbow high enough for planar alignment, looking into elbow issues otherwise.

The lower arm same thing - provides tension, while torso provides the propulsion.

The hands should be open/almost open. Blade finds it’s own way in the water, the tight lower or upper grip only messes things up.

Take care to minimize shoulder movement - ask your favorite PT why. Shoulder movement is defined as shoulder joint moving in and out of the back plane.



Wing stroke is a bit different, there is lifting involved, but no pushing or pulling.


Canoe stroke?

– Last Updated: May-26-08 9:21 AM EST –

OPer is a canoeist - don't know enough about canoeing myself to be sure if the same angles apply as for kayaking.

need to modify my previous post
with the following sub-topic from the Deep Thoughts on Boat Control thread http://www.paddling.net/message/showThread.html?fid=advice&tid=883952#884667



Curious

Posted by: trilliumlake on May-24-08 11:02 AM (EST)

as to your reasoning that larger blades contribute to shoulder damage?





could be strain

Posted by: flatpick on May-24-08 11:12 AM (EST)

it’s EZ to pull a little too hard on a big blade, creating some strain.



I find that with big blades I need to regulate my power a bit more than with a smaller blade.



Kinda like putting chains on in deep snow. GREAT traction but if the tires do get bogged down you’ll quickly burn out your clutch.



steve





Thanks, Steve

Posted by: trilliumlake on May-25-08 5:58 PM (EST)

Appreciate the feedback. I have fibromyalgia, which makes me more prone to strain injuries, so I’m always on the lookout for possible causes and ways to prevent/minimize them.



Come to think of it, I do sometimes notice it in my elbow when I use my big blades, but - I also notice that when using smaller blades, I have to paddle harder to keep up with the pack! Can possible strain from larger blades be offset/avoided by more torso rotation, pushing with the offside hand, etc.? Other suggestions?

Thanks,

Cat





yep

Posted by: flatpick on May-25-08 9:15 PM (EST)

think RPM’s with a smaller blade. quick, EZ strokes full of torso rotation. don’t think of pushing fwd with the top hand, think of twisting your spine, pushing w/legs/ etc. punching/pushing encourages shoulder work!If you get a chance try an AT exception sometime :slight_smile:

steve





Interesting…

Posted by: trilliumlake on May-26-08 9:59 AM (EST)

I’m going to try your suggestion next time I’m out.



Pushing with the offside hand is what I learned and what I teach, but you’ve enlightened me that (as with everything else in life), a situation may call for something different.



This is what I like about P.net. Thanks again - you’ve helped me become a better teacher.







con mucho gusto

Posted by: flatpick on May-26-08 10:05 AM (EST)

with much pleasure!



the ol’ push ~ pull went out the door a few years ago for the more effecient twist!



good luck!



steve

my bad
Did not realize that OPer is canoeist. A lot of stuff carries through though.

Single or double blade paddle?
Doh - just realized that in a canoe you could have been using either depending on whether a pack canoe or not…

Which was it? Knowing that might help with some more targeted suggestions.