good for averting bear attacks
and starting inadvertant forest fires
beam
The idea with the laser is to sweep the horizon and hope to hit somone, not point it straight up and hope someone sees the beam. The laser flares are supposedly designed to spread the beam a bit to improve your chances of hitting your target.
Almost did
– Last Updated: Dec-17-07 11:28 PM EST –
I had a flare gun and some old flare once...standing around with the guys at the end of a Friday I was compelled to show it to the fellows. I'm not sure if it was on a dare or I'm just stupid that way but I decided to bear down on a huge dumpster from about 75 feet away and pulled the trigger.
The flaming bolt was true to my aim until the last second then veered over the dumpster, bounced across the gravel lot, and then into a stand of pine trees.
You know what's on the ground below pine trees?
WOOOSH!
It took two fire extinguishers and shovels full of dirt to put it out. What a marooon!
I'll stick with flashlights and whistles
I really think flare guns are bad ideas
…for kayakers. Consider the situation you’ll likely be in if you need to use a flare. It’s very likely that you may be in the water and separated from your boat.
If this isn’t the scenario folks consider when choosing their equipment, it should be as it’s the worse possible scenario and it’s when you want as many realistic options as possible. Everything on my person is squeezed through that thought process filter before it’s put on my person.
In addition, many if not most of us paddle in cold water. Unless you’ve got a well insulated drysuit/wetsuit and gloves, hands aren’t going to function very well for very long. In other words, you want the simplest flare system that you can still operate with cold hands.
A flare gun does not stow well on your PFD. How many of you that champion the flare gun have it on your PFD so that if you’re separated from the boat, you can signal with it? This is a two-piece signalling system–the flare gun require you to load shells. Put your hands in 45 deg water for a few minutes and see how dexterous you are at this process. Shells can also easily be dropped in this process of loading the gun. You’re relying on the waterproofing of the shell as well as the mechanics of the gun (simple as they are) to function in the marine environment. (And you may literally be IN the marine environment and this is how sea kayakers need to think. Is that gun going to function when it’s full of saltwater?) The marnine environment, as we know, is an environment where ‘waterproofing’ and ‘mechanics’ often fail. This system is too bulky, requires too high of a level of dexterity, relies on too many things that can go wrong, etc. for me to personally feel comfortable with it.
I’m not saying it wouldn’t work. But if I’m adrift in cold water without my boat, that system wouldn’t be my first choice.
the problem with laser "flares"
laser flares are to real flares
as cell phones are to VHF:
the first is one-to-one contact,
the second is one-to-many
Good analogy
This is a difference that needs to be understood. You need a small arsenal of rescue tools, as each has their own strength and weakness.
You also carry a signal mirror don’t you? As I said in my first post I think of a laser “flare” akin to a signal mirror used at night, meaning that you aim it at a target to attract attention once you see a boat, plane, etc. The range of these devices is quite amazing, over 20 miles, and they last for hours (unlike your stock of flares).
IMO the only flare that really gets attention is a SOLAS parchute flare, but they are so big and bulky that at best I carry only one.
If all of your flares are spent, and you are floating in the drink, A laser flare is a device that I certainly would want on my person. The most likely scenario is that you would use it to help attract attention of a rescuer that you see once you call for help or have activated your PLB.
An advertised use of the rescue flare is that it can be used to scan and find objects that are adorned with reflective tape. I haven’t yet tried it for that purpose but it’s so bright (I have the green laser) that I have no doubt that it would work well for that purpose.
Greg Stamer
scanning with a laser flare
A good article/review on the laser flare is at http://www.equipped.org/rescuelaser.htm .
From what I have read, they are not particularly effective at blindly scanning for a target as you have to scan slowly. In that situation, I’d use a pyrotechnic flare to attract attention. Laser flares are very effective once you see a boat, plane, etc and aim at the target.
Greg Stamer
another moral
Don’t shoot your flare gun into a stand of pine trees!
There are reasons why
– Last Updated: Dec-20-07 5:50 PM EST –
laser flares are NOT Coast Guard approved. And as I recall, the manufacturer stated that getting Coast Guard approval was "antiquated."
I've said it before and I'll say it again...unless you file a DETAILED float plan so someone knows where to look for you, a laser flare isn't going to do you squat. Also, it must be pointed DIRECTLY at the search asset -actively looking- for you.
Waving a beam of red or green light on the water is NOT an official distress signal. Do you have any idea how many flashing, waving and blinking lights there are on the water? Unless there is some cooberating information, such as a report of an overdue person or vessel, there's not much justification to search. Now, a white flashing strobe? That's an official distress signal.
Laser flares are a nice tool to add to your kit, but should never take the place of officially recognized distress signals.
Parachute flares burn the brightest, longest, get the highest altitude and unforunately, cost more $$$ than any other flare.
"designed to spread …"
That’s just a function (I think) of physics/perspective
not perfect
Unlike a phone call, a lazer flare’s beam can quickly be directed this way or that. You spot a plane? Just point and click SOS! My biggest concern (and clearly you know more about this than I do since I don’t even own what we’re talking about) would be corrosion/failure.
(PS: Weren’t lazer flares outlawed years ago? Seems like I remember just that: kids pointing them at pilots!)
You’re thinkin’
about laser pointers, which aren’t illegal. I own one and my cat loves it. He climbs the fricken walls chasing it. Not bad for a 16 y/o Alaskan kitty with patchy fur and attitude. I use one at work for power point presentations, as well.
A better idea
– Last Updated: Dec-20-07 11:50 PM EST –
for me anyway. I know I can't be trusted with fire or a flare gun and think this little gizmo may be my answer. I saw one at a kayak shop yesterday. SPOT http://findmespot.com/ I don't know what the monthly service fees are but the unit seemed reasonable enough.
I was bulletproof when I was 20, I'm way past that now.
In or out of the boat
If you are still in your boat, or beached somewhere with it, a pistol flare could be quite handy to fire at the point that you hear a motor coming by. Even better if they are looking for you because you put out a distress call. I was thinking of picking up one to have in the day hatch.
For the out-of-the-boat scenario though, where you may have nothing more than what’s in your PFD, you’d have to have a laser flare or, for daylight, a signaling mirror. The pocket-sized flares wouldn’t be much use unless someone was already looking your way, if you could get them to work reliably in the first place.
The out of the boat scenario is where I think the laser flare really fills a previously unmet gap, since a signaling mirror isn’t much good at night. If they have to be replaced periodically, so be it. Your life is still worth more.
Learn from the Past
To quote Ian Gillan:
Frank Zappa and the Mothers
were in the best place in town.
But some stupid with a flare gun
burned the place to the ground.
Smoke on the water
fire in the sky…
Read the report…
If you really want to be found when something goes very wrong, rather than bouncing around the ocean and praying someone will see your flare (or laser signal) then carry a PLB in remote areas.
Here’s some excerpts from http://www.equippedtosurvive.org/rescuelaser.htm (the writer is not associated with the manufacturer).
“The flash of the laser light is definitely distinctive and not likely to be confused with anything else, like a conventional flashlight or strobe may be. It is perceived as a brilliant flash of light similar to, but not exactly like that from a signal mirror, bright red or green in color. It will surely be more likely to attract attention of passersby, on the ground or in the air. In any area with other white light sources, it also stands out. We’re not sure the distinctive flash adds much for searchers specifically looking for a survivor at night in a dark wilderness area or empty ocean where any light source will likely be investigated, but it certainly is more distinctive in any case.”
“Compared to traditional handheld pyrotechnic devices (flares), it has the very significant advantage of much longer duration, as well as being compact and lots safer. With lithium battery power, the storage life is two to three times that of most pyrotechnics and there’s no disposal problems like there is with pyrotechnics. Particularly in the case of the more affordable red Rescue Lasers, this can also mean they are much more economical, even more so if you compare the cost to the much more effective SOLAS flares as opposed to the less capable USCG approved flares. The Rescue Laser is demonstrably superior in most line of sight distress signaling scenarios because of the control it offers and its extended duration. With flares you have to hope that someone is looking in your direction during the brief duration of the flare. Too often we know that wasn’t the case. Because it is so easily carried on your person, the Rescue Laser is especially appropriate as a personal distress signal compared to even the most compact flares”.
“Note, however, that the Rescue Laser is not a complete replacement for pyrotechnics in a marine environment where aerial flares may be used to signal over the horizon and obstacles such as a high sea state and where in some situations aerial flares are worldwide recognized means of communicating, beyond just distress”.
“Bottom line is that the Rescue Laser is worth adding to your survival gear and the red Rescue Laser Light is standard equipment in my Doug Ritter Ultimate Aviator Survival Paks. It’s small and light enough to fit on a key chain. In terms of distress signaling priorities, after a 406 MHz PLB and a signal mirror, it’s next on the list.”
Greg Stamer
VHF
I guess a PLB is prefered over a VHF for rescue but wouldn’t it make sense to have a VHF as companion/precursor to the survival gear?
VHF
If I was to have flares I’d want a vhf as well. Seems to me there’s greater chance of contacting more people over a wider area with a VHF than a flare and linking the two would help to guide a rescue.
exactly
Most CG
rescue assets have the ability to locate (DF) a VHF signal. I say most cuz not all CG small boats are rigged for it, but all aircraft are. W/the integration of Rescue 21 system, a lot of the larger CG units can. If you google Rescue 21, it’s a pretty interesting read. There are still radio signal dead spots out there, but with new technology, they’re slowly becoming fewer.
As much as I like the fact PLBs are now available, they’re still too pricey for my blood. If I was prone to going on expeditions, I would invest in one, though. The biggest problem with PLBs and EPIRBs is folks not updating their registration info when they sell them or move.