SOT
I have no problem with SOT paddle EDU. It’s all about posture, paddle articulation and boat control. heck I can even teach people in CANOES!!! 
The SOT program can be quite FUN as the learning curve is much steeper. rescues are quite EZ nad the roll is…not needed!
We sometimes take a SOT or 2 along on a SurfZone course so when non-rollers get tired of swimming/dumping out they can try something FUN for a while.
steve
One size fits no one
There are probably 42,000 ways to learn stuff. Good for me to keep that in mind. Any idea once it gets too extreme somehow seems to put down what is right for someone else. So for those who it works for go for it. Please do as some say, allow for the rest to have their way as well.
Flatpick - I think you owe Brent some…
… serious advertising money!
Iceman nailed it!
BTW - I’d love to be able to go through all that - just ain’t gonna happen 'til I hit Lotto!
me vs. myself
I agree with Jed’s “me vs. myself” thing (except I see I more as expansion than internal conflict). My interst in taking courses (yes - interested - not anti - any critisims aside) is certainly in that spirit, but then so is everything I’ve done related to paddling.
For now, courses and certs are not a need, and don’t really fit my time or money budgets, so will remain relegated to the lower priority “might be nice to do someday”.
Partially my point…
Then to have the gall to post it in Advice, Suggestions, General help. More underlying instructor type attitude.
Would be good reading if every p.netter did this I guess
I wonder why…
there was never any mention of the National Association of State Boating Law Administrators?
were you following
the “John Dowd’s Scourge of Certification” thread?
this is merely another point of view, not a friggin’ advertisement. Like I stated before isn’t about the money, it’s about the quality and standard of EDUcation.
We are working hard at establishing a standard for North American paddlers based on the ACA and BCU ideals. Like this thread you can always ignore it. But for the paddler looking to up his skills using an established ‘certified’ system, it’s gaining some momentum and if and when the govt. seeks some regulation we will have already been in place and doing, IMHO, a reasonably good job of it.
ProChoice- have you considered de-caf?
steve
I’m with northman
with a caveat.
As the ‘sport’ of kayaking explodes more and more there is going to be an explosion of folks who have absolutely NO comprehension of what to do if the boat rolls or how to get back into it after they’ve (hopefully) exited.
Their problem you say…maby. But let enough lawyers start suing over loss of life due to no one comming forth and instructing and the entire paddling community will get rules and regs. shoved down it’s throat.
For personal resaons I will NEVER be perfecting a roll…That said; I have enough common sense to not be out in the middle of Lake Erie or Ontario or one of the larger Finger lakes alone or in nasty conditions. I paddle smaller and quieter waters and I’m happy doing so. I am with a group and hope to get involved in far more rescue drills with this group next season…never hurts to have some idea of what to do.
Swedge, the sky is falling…
I think our fears are being played upon by a master salesman.
As per the USCG:
The authority to regulate recreational boat operator proficiency resides with the States. The National Association of State Boating Law Administrators (NASBLA) is the national organization represented by all 56 states and territories of the United States. They are the body that approves courses for operator proficiency.
Prefer tea thank you.
Do you honestly think you will see such regulation of a small niche in our lifetimes?
Being passionate about something is no cause to start flailing about… but I guess I am the one being hypocritical.
Merely another opinion which you may also choose to ignor.
I guess it’s a little hard to stay
– Last Updated: Nov-18-04 2:37 PM EST –
out of this.
The funny thing that keeps creeping into my head is that all the people who are against certification, are people who have not taken the training or the assessments from the BCU/ACA.
Mind you I don't think everyone should HAVE to be certified to paddle. I think that would be a mistake. And just for further clarification I don't think that everything the BCU/ACA does is correct either.
But what I want to know is if there are any paddlers who have been trained, assessed, and certified who now regret it. Who now think that it was a complete waste of time? If so please speak up. This argument as it stands seems to be mainly polarized between people who have either no certification/assessments, and people who do.
But in the grand scheme of things though, who cares. Why all the animosity? Why not just skip certification and leave it at that?
Laying Out A Curriculum
is not the same as saying everyone HAS TO follow the curriculum.
I am not clear why such animosity either towards Flatpick for spelling out what he wants and is working on.
Heck, if he said certification of proposed currculum is a requirement for putting a hull on the water, then I can understand. I would be on the phone and in person with my elected officials to fight that. But, that has not been the case.
Chill, paddle, and worry not about certification if it doesn’t apply to your wants or needs.
sing
It’s there…
Much is inferred through this: Flatpick and the ACA/BCU have a plan for us all when the government steps in to regulate us. Afterall, it’s already in the wind. Flatpick doesn’t want to help us stop regulation, but rather take the opportunity to impose his own set of rules on us.
He speaks as an authority Sing.
DLonborg wrote:
Regulation - I hope that being ready means ready to fight it, not ready to have the government mandate a steady source of income for instructors and paddleshops. Lessons are all well and good–I had my first formal lesson last weekend, and it was excellent–but being required to say “mother may I” to buy a boat or gear would drive me right out of this sport. I’m on the water to get away from that crap.
Flatpick Reponded:
Ready - means having our sheet together and having an ‘established’ system of regulating ourselves. If we fight it we will loose. Too much liability, danger, technicality, money, etc. involved as the sport goes mainstream. When Wal-Mart and GI-Joes started selling serious paddle gear and NO back-up of knowlegeable sales staff or routes to EDU we stated down the path of regulation.
all it takes is a couple more deaths and the govt will be take a strong look at us (as an industry) and figure out what it takes (in their humble opinion) to make it safer. It’s already in the wind.
As we speak I’m working with the ACA and BCU in figuring out a pretty cool system! More soon.
steve
needing a plan
If a non-paddler sees Steve & his friends out surfing, walks into his shop the next day, and says “I want to be able to do that by next month”, he’s going to need some sort of structure. Telling him to go on an inner-directed voyage of self-discovery isn’t going to cut it.
By the same token, if someone comes in wanting to find peace and tranquillity paddling on flat water, I suspect that Steve has the good sense & ethics not to sell them a 72-part course on “Kayaking your way to peace and tranquillity”.
Thanks
I was wondering how much detail was necessary?
Would I start another thread on it or just e-mail you or do you wanto to post it here.
Do you log capsizes in the party, assistd rescues. I think I’d log a tow certainly.
Thanks again.
Funny thing?
Doesn’t seem too funny. People who choose to go through a certification process because they value it. Others choose differently. Why would you expect anyone to regret their choices?
I agree that live and let live is the right answer. This topic gets strong reactions when people who aren’t particularly interested in certification perceive an agenda of making certification mandatory (either by government regulation or by the paddlesports business) or expected (peer pressure/club rules pushing people into certification). Avoid that and it’s a non-issue.
the eight fold path
64 fewer steps!
I don’t think Steve’s response
on the earlier thread was saying that he’d support government regulations requiring certification. At most, it might point toward some kind of certification process being required/strongly encouraged through paddleshops. I don’t like that idea much, but I also have some sympathy for the position a guy like Steve is in when somebody comes into his shop and wants to rent a boat to go do something stupid.
threaded conversations
Steve, I think the part that’s confusing is that for folks not following this thread as a continuation of another it looks like an advertisement or pronouncement from a podium.
I didn’t get through all of the other thread so that could be why pro-choice is reacting as he is.
Gotta have a structure if you wanna teach different people. You make a lot of sense to me.
it seems funny to me
because it reminds me of my 7 year old son swearing he doesn’t like green beans when he’s never tried them.