Flatwater in a WW kayak?

Won’t solve the problem
The RPM is just as snug as the crossfire.

S is smaller n.m.

it’s not a perfect solution, but I’ll ask if tracking or space is more important to him. …I’m still wondering about that Mamba, too…

Oh, I don’t need a sugar mama…
… just a kayak mama :smiley:

Liquid Logic Coupe.

– Last Updated: Jul-26-11 12:33 AM EST –

If he's a claustrophobic SOT guy, anyway...Why put him in anything else? It's affordable. It's easily Cl. 3 capable in good hands(Do you see him running water bigger than that? Sure doesn't sound that way.) "Too wet" a ride maybe??? --Buy him some new spiffy drywear while you're out shopping...Or would it be "too embarrassing" to make the scene with a guy in an SOT beside you? Get the Bad Ass Deluxe wedge seat/thigh straps with it, and the lucky stiff will probably worship you for life. Retractable skeg makes it a charm on flatwater. Also fun in ocean surf. (Personally, I'd rather be seen on a brand new Coupe, than in any used RPM--A boat I sold off well over 5 years ago, and has probably changed hands on Craig's List/ebay as many times since.) Food for thought.

pshaw. easy fix

– Last Updated: Jul-26-11 8:38 AM EST –

RPM Max. If you can find one it may well fit the bill.

I think $400 is fair given the poly is still solid.

Liquid Logic XP9?

– Last Updated: Jul-26-11 10:06 AM EST –

I just bought the XP10 and I love it. We paddled 16 miles last Sunday on a Class I river, with the last six miles being completely flat with the wind blowing up river. Dropped the skeg and let it rip. Now it does push some water and isn't near as efficient as a touring or ocean style kayak, but it does pretty darn good on flat water, tracks well, great on white water, and the cockpit is really open.

I just bought it a few weeks ago and have been paddling a solo canoe (Old Town Pack) for the past 10 yrs, so if anybody should feel claustrophobic it should be me, but it doesn't even phase me......thank goodness :).

Sunday was the first time to paddle with my new 210cm Werners Stikine paddle and it worked well with the width of the boat.


where in the world are ya?

Here are a few sale ads for Dagger RPM Max kayaks:


some more online but these looked the most current.

Not a C.I.T.!
Well, he’s not what my guy friends used to call a C.I.T. (chump in tow). He is a surf(board)er, so he could easily step up, I believe. Neither of us is rolling in cash to burn right now. I am no snob. I have no prob with the sit on top, but I thought he could grow into the ww that I crave. I doubt I will ever be a playboater, but I suspect he could if he wanted to. We live so darned close to some great WW, it would be a shame not to have some ww capability, right? Much closer than the ocean!!! I have my heart in the right place. I have spent more than a few vacation days struggling to learn to surf the ocean with him…and then doing some reading by myself. So I was looking for a watersport we could learn and enjoy together close to home where the river is always running. He’s got the instinct, he was just initially a little negative the first time out. HE wants to continue though. He says he had a good time. I was just trying to make sure his experience was as positive as possible. We will both need some lessons to progress.

Neither the RPM nor RPM max will track well and he will swim in the max. I regularly teach pool sessions where we use WW boats for beginners. They always have trouble getting the boats (including RPM and Redline) to go straight in the flatwater of the pool. The RPM is known for catching its stern if you are not careful (so is the Redline). The cockpit of an RPM and a Redline are identical. I don’t recommend either the RPM (or max) or Redline for someone just starting out. On the other hand the Dagger Mamba is a nice boat and a newer design. If the one for sale is a 7.5 I would say that is your best bet.

to max or not to max
Thanks for the info. I AM in VA. He might enjoy the extra space of the max, and will make use of the leg/foot room, but will his low weight negatively impact the functionality?

OK, so what about a repair?
So the particular mamba in question ( I don’t know what size it is, but will find out) had a small, one inch repair on the poly directly under the seat. It was professionally done. Is that an issue?

sorry to pick nits but I don’t agree.
This guy has been in the seat of a kayak before and is a surfer so he has some semblance of balance. He’s not a pool newbie. Catching the stern? Are you kidding? Compared to a newer river runner or a playboat that’s a negligible concern and I doubt it would do so significantly more than the mamba.

When I paddled the regular RPM it felt stable and with a bit of effort it tracked fine for a crossover. I rolled it first attempt with no sweat. I doubt the tracking in a mamba would be significantly better.

Either choice would be fine but given the OPs parameters and budget it’s best to consider both IMO.

If you can get an undamaged RPM or RPM max, it certainly is. See below.

I can’t comment on that but

– Last Updated: Jul-26-11 11:01 AM EST –

I'm on the small side of average and the regular RPM felt like it fit well, but I'm used to sea kayaks.

Don't get me wrong, the RPM is known for having a lower profile stern but compared to newer boats I wouldn't think that would rule it out.

Have you thought about getting him onto flatwater and practicing wet exits until he feels more comfortable or less claustrophobic? My girlfriend was resistant to skinny sea kayaks until we went to the beach for a few days and just did exits. OTOH, I wouldn't discount the suggestion from another poster here to try out a SOT option.

Mamba strike!

– Last Updated: Jul-26-11 11:18 AM EST –

So I have a good lead on that Mamba! Not sure what size it is yet, but the seller will get back to me tonight.

So, if a guy is 5'10" and 125 lb, is a 7.5 the only do-able mamba size?

And thanks everyone. Your advice is really helping! I'll be the first to admit, I am partial to the RPM. What history! But I know nothing of the mamba or it's ilk. But I do not fear it! There's the great circle of life. Boats come and go on it all the time!


– Last Updated: Jul-26-11 11:20 AM EST –

Don't make me separate you two!!! Hahahahaha. ;)

Seriously, the Mamba is priced to go ($200 on an inside track) vs. the RPM at $400. What do I need to know about the repair, besides that it is small and professionally done? Does it impact integrity?

Yes, he needs to relax and take it out to Violett’s Lock where we can practice in the cove and spy on the other people having fun in their various boats. I think that’ll do it. :wink: We just got flotation, still need helmets. We just have the regular zip up the front pfds. My spray skirt is coming from eBay… I think we will have just enough gear to practice wet exits in still water. After that, I think it’s time for lessons. I know just enough to be dangerous. The rest, I just know, but can’t explain properly.

it all boils down to size
At this point, it would be helpful to consider Whether a boat of either style, that is spec’d for a heavier person would be appropriate for a lighter-weight person, assuming height is not an issue. Could some hip pads be added to outfit the boat and be the end of the story? OR would the handling be off?

just a disagreement
Nothing more. I like to leave all options open. And the Dr. is the instructor, so I certainly respect his opinion.

Given the price difference the mamba sounds like a good choice (I’ve never paddled it). There are some good posts regarding poly repair that you can find here with a search of the archives in this forum.