Flatwater in a WW kayak?

-- Last Updated: Jul-25-11 8:24 PM EST --

I need to get a second kayak for my boyfriend. He is used to a sit on top. I am the one that convinced him he needed a boat that could at least roll and do some WW, a river runner, not a playboat or a rec boat. He's OK in my old Perception Corsica, but not in the Dagger Crossfire that we got for him. I can see why now that I look at it: no edges and lots of rocker. Plus he is claustrophobic in it. I was looking to get him something with a little more volume but that is shorter. I know nothing about these boats: Here is what I saw around the internet available used: Dagger Mamba, Perception Supersonic, Dagger RPM, Dagger Redline. Any advice? It has to be OK on flatwater too. like the Corsica.

Reviews for boats you’ll find used


Can you tell us why he has a problem with the crossfire? Is it an inability to paddle it straight? trouble turning? or just the claustrophobia?

Time spent paddling the kayak should deal with paddling problems and practicing wet exits until he’s bored may help with claustrophobia.

Another factor is paddler size, how big is he? The crossfire may not be the right fit. Also note that some boats like the Mamba come in different sizes.

"OK on flatwater too"
Might help to be a little more specific about that. WW boats are designed to turn when left to their own devices. Learning to paddle them involves learning to make them go straight when they don’t want to. It isn’t all that hard but it can be very frustrating in the beginning. There is nothing you can do about the lack of speed. They are just slow and always will be. Yes, a playboat will be REALLY slow but even the faster WW boats cannot compete with flatwater boats.

flatwater in a ww kayak
Well, I know it isn’t ideal, trying to get anywhere on flatwater in a WW kayak. BUT, as I said, there was a big difference in spinning and tracking straight in the least current/wind between my WW kayak and his, so little (design) things mean a lot! He is 5’10" and 125 lbs.

The Corsica is wider, a bit shorter, and has a larger cockpit. It is sized for larger paddlers (minimum 150 pounds). So it is in effect a recreational boat for a smaller person. It does not fit him on ordinary grounds. But for putzing around it may be fine. The Dagger is appropriately sized but he may not be ready for a WW boat that really fits him.

boy is your boyfriend lucky
I think he’d better quit while he’s ahead and settle for whatever you pick!

Crossover boats
This sounds like the perfect application for a crossover boat, like Pyranha Fusion, Liquid Logic Remix XP, Jackson Rogue, or one of the others. Except for the price, as there don’t seem to be that many used ones around, and the sellers seem to want 80% of new.

You or Him
Is this something that you want or is he really into paddling? At face value, it kinda sound like a square peg in a round hole situation. Maybe kayaking isn’t his thing. If he’s comfortable in a sit-on-top and is happy, why push him into something that isn’t a priority for him. Claustrophobia is hard to ignore and you want him to roll and run smaller rapids? A new boat isn’t going to solve this problem. Just my two cents.


– Last Updated: Jul-25-11 9:23 PM EST –

worth a look:

These boats are designed to work well on flat water (for a WW boat anyway), but are also Grand Canyon capable.
Good reviews on this (paddling.net) site. Also used by some to teach rolling. Relatively roomy cockpit. The Pyranha Fusion is also in this "crossover" category.

Funny that you say that…We had to switch boats and paddles. I could feel the difference: paddling that crossfire was tougher. And his 200 paddle was one size too long for him but three sizes too long for me. But at least he stopped being so frustrated. I DO want my boat and paddle back though!

The Mamba and RPM seem like they might have a little flatness (less rocker) and could possibly be an improvement for him. I should admit right now that I am a returning paddler. I worked at an outfitter as a high schooler and got a handful of free lessons. It was a long time ago. Boats have changed and I am rusty! My BF is a surfer and I am sure that once he gets the hang of it he will be smokin’ me on the water in no time.

except for the money…and the will
Well, we started out bird watching on a borrowed sit on top. But I admit my old, latent ww leanings took over. He always drags me surfing at the ocean (on a surfboard). We can never get there more than a couple times a year so I never get any better. I thought the surfing urge might translate into ww kayaking. Good thought, right?

And the dream boat is a liquid logic XP, but we aren’t into investing that much until we can see if the habit will stick. :wink: Gotta love craigslist!

whatever s stands for…
And my Corsica is an S series. I haven’t been able to figure out the difference between the S and the regular. It’s ancient history now…

You’re buying…
your bf a SECOND kayak!?!?!?!?

Do you have a single sister, by any chance???

:wink: Sorry, no paddling siblings

– Last Updated: Jul-25-11 9:45 PM EST –

This is message board is more fun than I thought it would be! hahaha. To be clear, I am not a sugarmama. We will re-sell the first on Craigslist if it doesn't work out. They trade pretty swiftly here near the Potomac/Great Falls.

How is it possible for a man to be 5’10" and be only 125lbs?

I liked the RPM
I’m a sea kayaker but I paddled an RPM and really liked it. Not too bad to kaap a course on flatwater, and it felt like it would be a blast surfing and rock gardening. I recall seeing a few of these around in the recent past (maybe check the classfieds here and Ebay also).

Best of luck to both of you!

It’s true.

That is a meaningful endorsement. From what I can tell, the RPMs are holding their value. Used are still $400 and I don’t think they are in production anymore. It is hard to tell how old any one of them are from a Craigslist posting. How much would an RPM be worth in good condition? I guess that is relative…

Not clinically claustrophobic
He wasn’t hyperventilating or anything, just a combo of first-timer frustration and a hot day. And we had to give back the sit on top anyway, so we had to start thinking of what to replace it with…