Does anyone know anything about the Flight Expedition kayak from Coast Mountain Sports? I have been searching but can find no information on it at all. It is apparently 13 feet, comes with a rudder and is made from Zytec. Thanks
riot/sun/azul
http://www.riotkayaks.com/sunkayaks/flight.htm
There’s info. Sun/Riot/Azul is the same company. If you’re from vancouver,Skyview outdoors in surrey sell Riot rec/touring kayaks and at least there they are somewhat knowlegable about kayaks, vs coast mountain sports people that may as well be selling toasters and hairdryers.
I’m pretty sure somebody with one of these 12.5-13 footers was complaining on this board about the neoprene hatch covers imploding .
Seat Back??
– Last Updated: Dec-03-06 3:48 PM EST –
Just looked, saw two things that would give me pause for taking this boat out into big open water as you want. One is that the hatch covers are indicated to be "water resistent". That is not comforting, especially since if you take a boat to the south for lessons you'll be asked to lean it to turn. You want hatches that are at least supposed to be dry for that, or you could be putting water into your bulkhead on normal manuvers. I am getting the impression that any prior experience you have is with sit on tops - am I right?
Worse though, at least from the picture, that seat back. It looks like you have a choice of a seat back that is too high to add a skirt, not optional for what you want to do, or folding it down and none at all. Also potentially uncomfortable to start, even if it might be good for you.
I also am thinking that the 19 by 33 inch cockpit is unlike to give you useful purchase, unless there are aggressive thigh brace options unmentioned on this site. I am a bit intrigued by the manufacturer's proposition that this boat could go down rapids - I'm not seeing a boat pictured that most WW folks I know would do that with.
Seriously, it seems that you are still looking for deals in less capable open sea boats than most here recommended. Is that the case, or would you like some p.netters to give you a specific list of boats to consider that you look around for used? The reason that I mentioned the Mystic is that it'll likely do everything you want, be a boat you wouldn't have to go and sell after a year, and since Impex is a Canadian company it should be accessible for you used.
Also - to mention again re the weight - if you get a plastic boat, even if it seems heavy at first you'll find that you can manage it with a kayak cart. You don't have to worry dropping a plastic boat, whereas you do have to be more careful with some of these lighter weight hybrid options, and it'll have the similar durability when you hit (literally) the rocky shores where you live.
Got one
Sorry I bought it. What was I thinking??? Very disappointing performance, no foot room (size 9). Hope to get rid of it next spring.
Imploding hatch covers!?
Thanks so much for the link, good to have a look at the specs. I Really don’t want any imploding hatch covers… and water Resistant hatch covers doesn’t sound appealing either.
I think it’s a No for this one!
Imploding, leaking hatch covers, add to that your comments on the seat I think its a no thanks even tho it is a good price used.
No I have never tried a sit on top and don’t think that is at all what I want. I have tried a tandem and know that I don’t want that. I want a single, recreational touring/light performance touring kayak. I would like a capable boat and appreciate the help on finding that. If I can find a deal on a capable boat, so much the better. Yes a list of capable boats does sound appealing.
The Mystic does sound very interesting to me with what you have written. The price new is a bit more than what I wanted to spend. There is a place here that sells them and as soon as I can get out of my driveway I will go try one out. (we have a lot of snow) I haven’t found one used yet. In the reviews I have read one person had constant trouble with the lines on the scag, other reviews loved the Mystic.
From what I have read plastic (polyethylene) boats tend to dimple, bend, change shape with the heat and UV exposure in the south - 4 months travel on the roof on the motor home in Mexico with no shade. So I have ruled out plastic and have only been looking seriously at fiberglass or composites.
Thanks so much for your comments.
Thanks for more info
– Last Updated: Dec-03-06 4:10 PM EST –
Didn't realize the boat would be living on the roof of a motor home. While decent plastic (for ex. not the recycled plastic used in Walden boats) should be a bit more robust than you mention, certainly the roof of a motor home in that part of the country is a high maintenance situation.
That said, UV damage will happen regardless of material. So, whatever material you get you either accept that will fade, or you regularly apply 303 and/or try to get it down to the ground under cover when you are set somewhere for a few days.
Depending on how you carry it, some of the lighter weight alternate materials are no less subject to acquiring slight dents from sitting on a rack in hig heat than better quality plastic like Valley and Prijon use.
I have to scoot - but I believe that there may be an option or two in the 14 ft range that'll give you some amount of performance and fit. Will look around old threads for the boats tonight or tomorrow.
13 foot “expedition” kayak ?
not hardly. it’s barely a dayboat and not a particularly good one at that!
Ideas for boats
Following are what I pulled up in a quick look around some manufacturer’s sites for shorter boats that would likely function for you to get started. Most are at or under 14’. This list is by no means complete, but I have to get ready for work.
Dagger Sitka (discontinued) - longer, but in composite
Wilderness Systems Piccolo (discontinued), but add float bags in back, run extra line along to the front to catch to the carry loop. (plastic). May have to do something to get that seat back down to go under a skirt.
Wilderness Systems Tsunami 120, can be gotten in duralite or the Pro in composite. The cockpit seems a little long, but they do have adjustable thigh braces so that should even out. May have to do something to get that seat back down to go under a skirt.
P&H Vela - probably not likely you’ll find one used, but it’s a love it or hate it kind of boat so someone may be feeling like cleaning out the garage for cheap. Composite, and quite tough. 15’8" sea kayak that’ll handle anything the water can throw.
Impex Mystic - 16’, used is a possible find in plastic or composite. Impex boats generally aren’t at all heavy for thier length.
Pygmy wood boats -
These are kit boats, but again you may find someone who made one for a family member or otherwise has a decently made wood boat and almost no interest in continuing to take care of it. The advantage of wood is that, under the difficult conditions you mention, it may fare better. You’d have to watch the seams maybe, but it’s not bad in-season maintenance. Like all stich and glue wood boats they are pretty lightweight, and either of these are boats that you would likely be more than happy to keep for a long time for easy day paddles and messing around with skills.
You’d likely need to add perimeter rigging, given how most of these tend to get made that I’ve seen. And float bags. But that’s quite doable.
Tern 14 - Sould definately feel OK.
Pygmy - Osprey 13, “fits adults 5’3” and under" with 10.5" deck height. It should work for you if you are on the average to lean side - manufacturers do tend to overshoot the mark a bit.
Boats
I had a Piccolo, but sold it - weight limit is about 125lbs, even with float bags, it took on alot of water, and it felt tippy to most (kids) trying it. I have a Sonoma 13.5 that is more appealing to newbies.
My plastic boats bounce back into shape after being dented by the sun. If they are in cradles, I wouldn’t worry about it.
Thanks for the comment
This is (obviously) not a category of boats where I have a lot of seat time, but I thought starting a list of boats that had were likely to have some capability as a learning boat, could be obtained used fairly inexpensively and could literally take the heat might be helpful.
Ideas
Celia, thank you so much for doing this search for me, you are very kind. This is very helpful. The snow is finally beginning to melt so I will actually be able to leave the house and get out on the water tomorrow or Wednesday.
Don’t give up on it yet…
I have one, sans rudder or bow hatch, and its one of my favorite boats. But it isn’t what I would call an expedition boat. It is a good, versatile, durable, light plastic (Xytec) touring kayak, especially for the money. Keep it off the deep seas and anything over Class III whitewater, but I have had it in everything in between, including some rough conditions. It handled everything that got thrown at it. Even with the extra outfitting, it is in no way an expedition boat, but perfectly capable for one or two nights overnight without skimping too much on the gear. The hatches are not waterproof, but what does that matter if everything is packed properly in waterproof bags/boxes, etc? Mine has a hard plastic cover with a rubber gasket to fit over the hatch opening. I’ve been on trips where I rolled it over a dozen times or more to cool off, and at the end of the day there was less than an inch of water in the compartment, which was easy to drain since it has drain plugs. How many rec. touring boats have drainplugs for the main cockpit? Big help if you don’t have a roll and have to swim and then empty all the water out of the boat. I am sure that idea came from Riot’s whitewater background. For a plastic kayak it is pretty light. The Flight is designed for smaller paddlers (I’m 5’6”, 160 lbs, size 8 foot; A few inches taller, 20-30 lbs heavier or size 9 or 10 foot and you should look at its bigger brother, the Velocity). It won’t win any races (actually, I did win one in it), but it is fast for its length. I regularly wear a neoprene spray skirt on the boat, and the seat back is not in the way…but I don’t wear my throw-rope bag around my waist with it. The deck rigging is adequate, but I rarely use it, so don’t go by me. My only complaint…due to its unusual hull shape, it sits low in the water. Try to paddle anything shallower than 5” of water and you’ll hit bottom. But that also makes it real stable and contributes to its speed (the boat at water level is a lot narrower than the widest part of the boat). Paddling lakes and most any river is pretty easy in this boat, and I have had it out on Narragansett Bay in 20 kt winds and 2-3 foot seas-no problem, even without the rudder, although a quartering or following sea requires a little finessing. I’ve also had it in some decent Class III, but I wouldn’t substitute it for a playboat. It is what it is…a basic boat without many frills, but for the money it is a versatile boat that does a lot of things well. There are many boats I have been in that are more comfortable, have better outfitting, are cheaper, are more expensive, handle ocean better, are more fun or responsive in whitewater, or are better on rivers, but I haven’t been in any boat for the price that does everything that this one does.
Your results may vary.
Question re its fit?
So mayhaps I jumped on this one too quickly. The missing link remains what the husband will be buying, and how much they plan to take these boats into bigger water around where they live in Vancouver.
I take it, given your background, that you find it with useful thigh braces or equivalent control surface. Think they’d still be there at a couple of inches shorter? The wing design in the hull should increase primary stability.
Auntie, it sounds like I wuz too critical and this boat could do the trick to get you started as long as you were pretty conservative about how far you took it out.
thoughts
I just looked at the picture. I don’t like the hatches or the rigging. I prefer perimeter lines and bungees to hold the paddle for a float recovery. Also, 45lbs seems a bit heavy for a short kayak and perhaps the seat back is too high.
Further details
Yeah, I find the fit fine for my thighs, and my wife (who is 4 inches shorter) is also comfortable in hers (she has one as well). The cockpit is designed the same size as a whitewater cockpit opening. No specific thigh braces, but I find the shape of the deck conducive to both having enough room to relax and being able to lock in when I need to. This boat rolls easier than any of my whitewater boats, past and present (except for my Dagger Crossfire…nothing rolled easier than that).
Part of the reason that the seat back looks so high, I think, is that the back deck is pretty low. I have to admit I get uncomfortable in the boat if I’ve been paddling it any more than 5 hours at a time, but I have to say that about other boats as well.
I prefer rigging along the whole boat too, but I’ve found the existing rigging to be adequate with a paddle and a float for re-entry.
IMH. -riverstrider
Thanks, and one more
Any sense of how that Zytec material would fare in regular temps in the 90’s? I would guess that it’d be a plan to get it out of the sun when possible regardless, but in case it had to stay up there for a couple of days…
(Probably doesn’t roll as easy the Piedra, but it’s in good company if the Crossfire is the only one you’ve had that can beat it.)
I think It’d do fine
Doesn’t regularly get that hot in RI (not yet, anyway) but I happened to paddle it out on a 100+ degree day this past July, and didn’t notice any difference in the stiffness of the plastic or the performance of the boat. Not that I was paying attention to that particular detail. It is a pretty stiff plastic, much stiffer than polyethelene. Which is nice, because when you scrape it over rocks, the boat slides over them pretty well without anything near the gouging you’d get in most plastic boats.