Ah…
sing is my Chinese name. For net uses, it works well since my English name, david, gets taken up pretty quickly.
You really do not want to hear me sing. My kids will bang on the bathroom door to get me to stop “singing” in the shower. That’s how good I am.
sing
Man, you gotta learn
that ANY hint of a negative point about a Tempest will result in a deluge of wrath from the cult and their defensive leader. The 17 sucks. Don’t know about the 16.
Actually…
I don’t consider myself a “cult” member of the Tempest. Haven’t even paddle one yet. In fact, I haven’t been in a rush to since I don’t do overnight trips and don’t feel the need for another “high volume boat”. (I consider my Impex Montauk high volume). The T165, from my perspective is high volume. I have a paddling partner who is actually a little bigger than me who found the Tempest 165 “too big” for his taste. Since he and I do a bit of paddling together, he knows a bit about my taste in boats. I am pretty sure I am not going to go hog wild about the T165 when I get around to paddling it given his response to it.
I’ve read your your thoughts on the Tempest which are based on your experience paddling it. I totally respect that because it’s your experience of the boat after paddling it. Not your “cup of tea” and that is fine. But, for whatever reason, you have developed this axe you need to grind with steve. Then, there are those who love the Tempest and think highly of Steve. That’s fine too. LeeG has been making interesting (and less than favorable) observations about the fitout of the Tempest. I think his comments should be of interest to folks in Lee’s size category ‘cause his observations are based on actually trying to fit in the boat and looking at other features up close. Live2paddle made an “observation” which evolved into a judgement. I just think it’s important to note how that judgement may not be totally accurate since it’s based on an observation of an undersized beginner in a boat in conditions that would challenge intermediate paddlers and even some more “advance” paddlers.
I think mostly your axe with Steve is that you think he is “marketing” and, of course, he is. I have no problems with that since he is upfront about his involvement. Seems other folks don’t either. In fact, some of us wish other designers and manufacturers would come up front and talk about some of their products and answer folks’ questions. For example, I am still waiting to hear from NDK, though a person here who said he would have a conversation with him on the CQ concerns and report back. It’s been months… Not that I really care because I think all of the NDK boats are too big for my taste. Despite all the glorifying and detraction of the brand, I have no emotional affinity/antipathy to NDK. Same with VCP’s or QCC’s. I am interested in the discussion and thoughts behind why this or that in the designs of any of these boats. If I can hear directly from the manufacturer or designer, the more interested I am. So, If Steve gains more Tempest adherents, more power to him since he is willing to take the time to discuss the boat here. If NDK loses some sales to other “Brit” style boat manufacturers because of continuing concern about his commitment to QC. Well, the ball has been in his court for a long time… at least three years since I’ve been visiting this site where the questions go on endlessly (unanswered).
sing
yeah!
and who really takes ‘the 17 sucks’ as a serious decription of a boat’s performance. come on spray, what’s you got against me and Wildy. tell us how you really feel.
steve
If it ‘sucks’, then how…
did the Tempests ever establish such a cult??
Could it be they are a versatile user-friendly boat designed by real world paddlers???
Hmmm… the QCC crowd is rabid with respect to their boats. While some call the QCCs ugly, their owners simply offer their boat a loving caress and go paddlin’. The QCCs have established a ‘cult’ following because the product is above average and works for a wide variety of enthusiasts.
The same goes for the Tempest series. You can cry all you want and holler ‘foul’, but the cult exists for a reason… a reason that obviously escapes you.
I really don’t care what someone else paddles just as long as they PADDLE! I simply do not have time to lambast other boats simply because I don’t care for it. Do you really give a rat’s ass what I care for??!! Didn’t think so!
And… the feeling’s mutual.
As an aside, I cannot wait to receive my sucky Tempest. LOL!
Take care.
~Holmes
picky, picky
I can’t help it, that’s the way I am. There’s a lot right with the Tempest so that sticks out, I mean it’s where the person sits and since people are looking at lower volume cockpits nowadays compared to ten yrs ago it’s odd that the seat reflects the assumption of a smaller person in a big boat,so it’s kind of one step forward and one step back.
But for kicks ask me about Perceptions rubber rudder block. yes I have issues,who thought that was a good idea? Or the high mounted electrical clips used to guide the rudder lines on the Eclipse boats,good for scalloping skin.
ps. the inside edge of the Tempest coaming needs to be sanded to take the edge off.
ok, I’m done being picky,isn’t it great how far rotomolded kayaks have come since the Chinnook or Narpa?
Self fulfilling prophecy
Perhaps you were trolling for a self fulfilling prophecy with that last line. Well, here it is. I made a mental note the last time you were being negative in a post, that I should respond the next time. It didn’t take long either. A few points.
- I haven’t seen you write anything constructive in any of the tempest threads. By constructive, I mean, any of the following:
Information a paddler might use to better their skills.
Information a paddler might use to broaden their understanding of a product.
Language that encourages people to participate in the conversation.
- Your attempt to malign the Tempest boat, and Steve, is one-sided to the point of being obvious.
You’re constantly making a fuss (understated) about how people who work for kayak manufacturers and push their stuff “aren’t cool,” and worse, but you had no such problem in the thread, “Chatham 16 vs. Tempest 165,” with you and squash (manager for necky) and outrageous (team necky paddler) describing the virtues of the chatham. I want to be clear. I have no problem with you and squash and outrageous describing the virtues of the chatham. It’s the one-sidedness about the practice, and maliciousness on one side, that isn’t fair or productive.
LeeG asked you if you had any affiliation with necky or a distributor. You never answered directly. Somewhere above in that thread you said you had affiliations with several companies. Gee, I wonder which one.
- I don’t need to characterize Steve’s participation on this board. I will share some information though that many of the p.net people may not know. I monitor the PDX sea kayaking board pretty regularly. Steve advances the sport big time up there. Periodically opens his pool up for roll sessions, provides some WW boats, and says come on down! Probably gets about 5 certified instructors and 15 or 20 eager students every time. Don’t believe he charges a dime. Lots of other great events that draw quite a number of enthusiasts.
If Steve hadn’t replied to one of my inquiries at rec.boats.paddle.touring, before I found this site, that he would have a proto T180 at the last WCSKS, I would not have found it, and THAT would suck. As soon as I got out of the boat after the first 20-minute test paddle, I told him I was going to write a review on it. Must have paddle 30 other boats, including the chatham, from some pretty helpful and nice people. Didn’t offer to write a review on any of those. Must be Steve’s cult appeal.
Peace,
Paul Stivers
no affiliation.
That possibility occured to me.
But I knew you were a pretty open person, so figured you wouldn’t mind my using your name as the verb, to vocalize song.
Paul
OT 30 MPH wind beginner! wow!
I am unhappy in a wind of 30 to 35. I am not very happy if the gusts are hitting 30. In my opinion, a beginning paddler stretched way beyond the capacities of 99% of beginning paddlers is not competant to review or test a boat. The standard is gold not lead. To me that means a paddler with lots of experience in the conditions in at least a few boats securing the hatches himself. Then again I posted that I questioned the hatches on the Epic a while back, based on the hatches performance for a beginner. Maybe I was wrong to do so, but at least I did not damn the entire boat (far from it). And several others have publicly noted the problem I saw.
I think that Flatpick is very generous to those who post here, so if 5 % of his information is positive about the boat he helped to design (was head designer of?), I have no problem with that. He has been open about it. (Don’t think much of those people who did nothing for the board but tout the W boat though). I will give the shortest plastic tempests and the Chatham a happy river trial this year, take the best (for me) of them on the ocean.
thanks gang!
I try pretty hard to be more than just a Wildy/ Tempest promoter here and think I do a fair job of it.
Cult leader? =:-0)
steve
rough combing
I crashed my WS Seacret in the surf a few years back and it took the skin right off my shins as I exited.
cool
Bob McDonough, head of R&D at Confluence, and long time boat designer and WW rodeo pro, co-designed the boat with me.
It was my ideas, shapes and dimentions, with Bob’s artwork and experience to take it to mold.
And of course, MY testing!!!
Definitley a 50/50 split.
steve
now there was a boat!
The Seacret. And Wildy re-introduced it this year under the ‘Victory’ line. Iforget it’s new name. With that small cockpit is is no wonder you scraped shin.
I had a customer finish a 7-day San Juan Islands trip in a Skerray XL with two totally scabbed up shins. Seems he just couldn’t get in and out without shavin’ skin. I felt bad and sold the boat! he wasn’t that big/ long legged.
steve
Victory
does that mean the Alto might be out there someday?
You’re all right
I’ve been asked by some very close pals in the industry to be nice to Steve and quit picking on his boat.
I do have friends at Necky as well as other manufacturers. Out of respect for them I’m gonna say goodbye to ya’ll and let you stroke each other. BTW, I do love the Chatham 16, but I dislike some Necky boats. My opinions are all mine.
That Would Be
too bad. Aside from your posts dogging Steve, I have enjoyed and learned stuff from your many other posts. I think you should get Spike here to talk about the Spyder and the Chatham. That would float my boat…
sing
agreed!
– Last Updated: Jan-22-04 3:30 PM EST –
many of your posts are great and for the most part quite educational. I just think you lose creditablity when you dis me and Wildy so much.
but.... whatever.
I too would enjoy a forum rally with Spike or Nigel or Matt or Tom or Steve or Nigel or Derek or.....well.... maybe not Derek. ;-)
steve
You’re OK Spray
Bought two boats based heavily on your recommendations, and have been very happy with them.
Victory series
Yes Les the Navigator is your new boat! The Alto re-visited.
All 15’ 8" X 22.5" of her. Capacity- 300 lbs
and only $579.
The Seacret is now the Maverick. $519
steve
From The Frenzy Cult
– Last Updated: Jan-22-04 4:43 PM EST –
I am not even into sea kayaks at all, but I have spent some time on the ocean.
I think some folks are just skeptical about any beginner surviving 4' following seas in 35 knot rear quartering winds in any sea kayak.
That is really, really huge stuff.
As SurferX says "Not while you are actually awake"