I’ve sometimes read that when tandem canoeing through a rapid and there’s no time to “discuss” the right course of action, the stern should “follow the bow’s lead”. Without verbal communication, though, how does the stern know whether the bow wants to execute a side slip or a turn-and-forward maneuver around an obstacle?
I wouldn’t do rapids in a tandem unless I am with a partner that I am confident with and then in a case “were there is no time to discuss” each partner knows what the other will do
The quick answer is the bow paddler takes the lead with vision of what is ahead and stroke management. The alert stern paddler takes his cues of what to do from observing the action of the bow paddler.
I don’t do whitewater. I have been bow paddler in races for more than 20 years. I have mostly paddled in voyageur canoes with 6-7 paddlers, but quite a few C2 and C4 canoes as well. Some races, such as the Adirondack 90 miler, have sections of fairly narrow twisty streams with mild to moderate current along the route. Over time you develop an understanding with your stern paddler as to what is needed and when. Normally the stern calls the hut for everyone to switch sides. Especially in the long voyageur, I in the bow am best positioned to see what is needed up ahead when rounding a sharp bend and set the line to follow. Normally I “go independent” in such places. I hut myself while the other paddlers behind me continue with the sternman’s calls. I draw and sweep and bow rudder as needed. Where this really comes into play is in tight bends and I am able to determine the best line for best/shortest/fastest route around a bend, avoiding inside turn shallows and slack water, while taking the fastest (downstream) current with least distance. After the turn, in relatively straight sections, I set up placing the canoe on the opposite side to begin the best entry angle for the next sharp turn bend. The stern paddler takes his cues from my action as to what is about to happen and adjusts his turn control as needed.
If going upstream, it is even more important to hit the turn properly to avoid current hitting the bow and swinging it away from the turn. I will also always place myself on the inside curve (the knowledgeable stern paddler will usually place me there ahead of time with a hut in any case), since I can begin to draw and bow rudder before the bow begins to catch the downstream current and alters our course. Then the sternman can perform whatever draw or sweep stroke is necessary to spin us around the bend. Teamwork and each paddler understanding nonverbal cues is key in all cases.
I do much the same from the bow in a C2 tandem with a practiced stern paddler.
Not hard at all. If the bow leans out to do a draw the canoe should be kept in line going to that side
If the bow does a cross draw the stern of the canoe should move that way- th opposite of the draw direction
Usually the butt shift is the first clue
@kayamedic said:
Not hard at all. If the bow leans out to do a draw the canoe should be kept in line going to that side
If the bow does a cross draw the stern of the canoe should move that way- th opposite of the draw direction
Usually the butt shift is the first clue
I don’t understand the answer. It sounds to me like you’re describing side-slips in both directions.
Here’s an example of the decision I’m trying to make as a stern paddler. We’re in a rock garden rapid, dodging rocks that often only the bow can see. Bow suddenly draws left. I’m supposed to follow. But how? Small obstacles can be side-slipped, so I could pry on the right, my onside. Some obstacles are too large for side-slipping, so if there’s time it’s better to turn and then paddle forward to clear the obstacle. In that case I should do a draw on the right to support the bow’s draw for turning, then follow up with several forward strokes.
What type of canoe?
Tandem canoes made specifically for whitewater are usually highly rockered and turn quickly. These boats are usually more quickly maneuvered with a series of rapid turns rather than side-slips as the side-slips usually take longer and can be harder to coordinate. The typical scenario is that the bow paddler sees an obstacle at the last minute, usually a very low-lying rock or dead-head that was invisible to the stern because the bow paddler was in the way. Or perhaps the bow needs to make a slight last-second adjustment in position laterally to align the boat with a narrow chute. Assuming the two paddlers are on opposite sides, if the bow paddler suddenly puts in a strong draw to pull the bow to the on-side, most times the best response for the stern paddler is to put in a strong stern pry followed up with forward power strokes. If the stern paddler executes a draw, it is likely to pull the stern of the boat into the obstacle.
If the bow paddler suddenly puts in a cross draw or Duffek to the off-side, the stern would put in a draw to help pull the stern out of line of the obstacle. It might not be as graceful, but a strong active draw done in the bow in conjunction with a strong active pry done in the stern on the opposite side of the boat, will effectively move the boat laterally more quickly than a conventional side-slip done with static draws/pries, especially in a rockered whitewater canoe. Usually only a relatively small lateral displacement is required. If the obstacle is so large that a greater amount of lateral displacement is required, it will usually be apparent to the stern paddler.
The good news is that if the bow suddenly initiates such an unannounced maneuver, the stern paddler is immediately alerted to the danger. If you are in a boat that turns quickly, one good bow draw (Duffek) or cross-draw (cross Duffek) will usually turn the bow enough so that the stern paddler can see the obstacle and know what is best to do.
@pblanc said:
If the bow paddler suddenly puts in a cross draw or Duffek to the off-side, the stern would put in a draw to help pull the stern out of line of the obstacle.
The good news is that if the bow suddenly initiates such an unannounced maneuver, the stern paddler is immediately alerted to the danger. If you are in a boat that turns quickly, one good bow draw (Duffek) or cross-draw (cross Duffek) will usually turn the bow enough so that the stern paddler can see the obstacle and know what is best to do.
Exactly right! Stern cannot draw on the obstacle side or we will side slip to strike the obstacle. In calm or slow water, there may be time to power away quickly enough.
si> @melenas said:
@kayamedic said:
Not hard at all. If the bow leans out to do a draw the canoe should be kept in line going to that side
If the bow does a cross draw the stern of the canoe should move that way- th opposite of the draw direction
Usually the butt shift is the first clueI don’t understand the answer. It sounds to me like you’re describing side-slips in both directions.
Here’s an example of the decision I’m trying to make as a stern paddler. We’re in a rock garden rapid, dodging rocks that often only the bow can see. Bow suddenly draws left. I’m supposed to follow. But how? Small obstacles can be side-slipped, so I could pry on the right, my onside. Some obstacles are too large for side-slipping, so if there’s time it’s better to turn and then paddle forward to clear the obstacle. In that case I should do a draw on the right to support the bow’s draw for turning, then follow up with several forward strokes.
sideslips are stationary strokes with little application in whitewater
They do keep the boat going straight but are not strokes
Yoi do whstcer you have to do to keep the boat going straight
If your bow paddles right and starts a cross draw on the left to move the bow left and you are paddling on the left as yoi normally would be you do a draw
on that same side
@pblanc said:
Assuming the two paddlers are on opposite sides, if the bow paddler suddenly puts in a strong draw to pull the bow to the on-side, most times the best response for the stern paddler is to put in a strong stern pry followed up with forward power strokes. If the stern paddler executes a draw, it is likely to pull the stern of the boat into the obstacle.
OK, if the bow draws (cross draws) and the stern prys (draws) while going forward, the boat moves “diagonally” forward and to the onside (offside) without changing its bearing. That seems to be what everyone is suggesting. Now, isn’t the resulting maneuver called a side-slip, at least if they clear rather than hit the obstacle?
Well, in my experience, since the maneuver is unplanned, and reaction times are not infinitely small, the bow draw and stern pry will not be simultaneous. The bow will react as soon as the problem is appreciated, which may be at the start of the stroke, mid-stroke, or during the recovery. The stern will not react until he or she sees what the bow is doing.
In a highly rockered, fast turning boat, a good bow draw will have an immediate effect causing it to immediately begin a pivot to the on-side and pulling the bow laterally. When the stern then throws in a pry, usually at least a half second or so later, the stern will be pushed to the on-side and the hull will pivot back toward the off-side. So typically what the hull does is more like a rapid zig-zag with two rapid changes in bearing coupled with both downstream movement and lateral movement.
My experience in the swamp is to work together, communicate. If you let the bow take too much steering authority she will put your head right through a bush/tree full of spiders.
@Overstreet said:
My experience in the swamp is to work together, communicate. If you let the bow take too much steering authority she will put your head right through a bush/tree full of spiders.
Retribution?
The type of situation that I thought melenas was asking about was one in which there is no time to communicate and come up with a coordinated plan. That type of thing is very common in whitewater.
Consider the following scenario which is not in the least farfetched. You are paddling downstream tandem in a 16 ft whitewater canoe in fairly brisk current. You are paddling a bit faster than the current speed, which is the normal recommendation for modern whitewater canoes so as to maintain directional control, so your downstream speed relative to the river bottom is eight miles per hour. Suddenly the bow paddler sees what Wayne Dickert used to call an “unfer” meaning an unforeseen rock, just under the surface, about as wide as the canoe and only 1 1/2 boat length away and directly in the path of the canoe. Eight miles per hour is just a little less than 24 feet per second, so you have only about 2 seconds to do something to avoid an otherwise inevitable impact.
A back ferry is not a realistic option as you would first need to scrub off all of your speed greater than the current before it had any effect and there isn’t time. An upstream ferry is even more out of the question. You could try some type of lateral maneuver while maintaining the same bearing, whether you call it a side-slip or something else, but to do this effectively in a tandem usually requires a fair bit of coordination between paddlers which is unlikely to happen given the urgency.
So how about pivoting the canoe, paddling forward till clear of the rock, then pivoting back downstream? This might work very well to avoid an obstacle several boat lengths or more downstream but you probably don’t have time for that in this case. if the bow throws in a draw and the stern paddling on the opposite side likewise throws in a draw, the effect will be an immediate yaw to the on-side, but until you put in some good forward strokes, the boat will continue in downstream in the same direction, only pointed in a different bearing. Lets say the bow is paddling on the left. The boat will yaw about its longitudinal pivot point, which will almost certainly be forward of the longitudinal center of the boat. So the bow winds up being a bit closer to the river left bank, but the stern winds up even more close to the river right bank. So the effect of one rapid draw and one quick forward stroke will be such that the canoe hits the rock approximately midships at an angle instead of head on.
So instead, the bow puts in a draw and the stern responds with a stern pry. If this does not result in enough lateral movement to clear the rock, the bow will put in another draw, etc.
Well stated
@pblanc said:
The type of situation … put in another draw, etc.
Yes, well stated. That was exactly the answer I was looking for, with all options considered. My boat is a middle-of-the-road tandem (Bell Northwind), not a whitewater canoe.
You’re completely right about what I called a side-slip not being a side-slip but a zig-zag or whatever it may be called since the bow and stern strokes occur at different times. Zig-zag (or “lane change”) is what I meant and should have said.
“Following the bow’s lead” in the “unfer” situation described thus means for the stern to do the complementary stroke in order to zig-zag the canoe laterally. If the bow repeats the stroke, so does the stern. I would think that if the bow puts in a forward stroke because the bow’s judgement is that there’s time, so does the stern.
@yknpdlr said:
The quick answer is the bow paddler takes the lead with vision of what is ahead and stroke management. The alert stern paddler takes his cues of what to do from observing the action of the bow paddler.I don’t do whitewater. I have been bow paddler in races for more than 20 years. I have mostly paddled in voyageur canoes with 6-7 paddlers, but quite a few C2 and C4 canoes as well. Some races, such as the Adirondack 90 miler, have sections of fairly narrow twisty streams with mild to moderate current along the route. Over time you develop an understanding with your stern paddler as to what is needed and when. Normally the stern calls the hut for everyone to switch sides. Especially in the long voyageur, I in the bow am best positioned to see what is needed up ahead when rounding a sharp bend and set the line to follow. Normally I “go independent” in such places. I hut myself while the other paddlers behind me continue with the sternman’s calls. I draw and sweep and bow rudder as needed. Where this really comes into play is in tight bends and I am able to determine the best line for best/shortest/fastest route around a bend, avoiding inside turn shallows and slack water, while taking the fastest (downstream) current with least distance. After the turn, in relatively straight sections, I set up placing the canoe on the opposite side to begin the best entry angle for the next sharp turn bend. The stern paddler takes his cues from my action as to what is about to happen and adjusts his turn control as needed.
If going upstream, it is even more important to hit the turn properly to avoid current hitting the bow and swinging it away from the turn. I will also always place myself on the inside curve (the knowledgeable stern paddler will usually place me there ahead of time with a hut in any case), since I can begin to draw and bow rudder before the bow begins to catch the downstream current and alters our course. Then the sternman can perform whatever draw or sweep stroke is necessary to spin us around the bend. Teamwork and each paddler understanding nonverbal cues is key in all cases.
I do much the same from the bow in a C2 tandem with a practiced stern paddler.
Change of subject and a question if I may ?
Even though my wife and I have done the 90 12 times, I can’t answer my own question:
On the first 50 feet of the Raquette Falls carry where the stone steps are, is there a small narrow path beside them or are the steps a necessity ?
JackL maybe the folks here http://www.adkforum.com/ would have more info… AFAIK the steps are a pain and there and no alternative. But its been a looooong time
@kayamedic said:
JackL maybe the folks here http://www.adkforum.com/ would have more info… AFAIK the steps are a pain and there and no alternative. But its been a looooong time
I tried to log in, but couldn’t
I was thinking that there was a bit of space beside the steps