freight claims and shipping kayaks
It’s been a few years (15) but I worked several summers at a truck terminal. Yes-there truly are demented jerks that ram into kayaks with fork lifts fully knowing it says “hand load only” but they are lazy and stupid and cause an amazing amount of damage! So it’s true the freight companies pretty much deny ALL claims until you squeal pretty loud. Most people don’t and that’s profit in the bank. Because the employee signed with your notation of “damaged goods” you are on totally solid footing but will have to press a little. Most freight damage happens dragging the cargo the length of the trailer and wearing a hole in the packaging. With kayaks, I would guess if the kayak gets transferred a few times it will get dropped off the back of trailer A on it’s way to transfer to trailer B and that’s why the bow and stern see the most damage as they are dropping six feet onto concrete! This causes “hidden” damage that you’d better discover at the terminal or when they first deliver before the driver splits or you will be screwed. My job was answering the phones to deal with people who opened their packaging only to find all kinds of horrors and now they wanted justice. Sadly, I became kind of blase about claims since I saw a lot of really stupid packaging from shippers and we sort of developed this “not our fault” attitude on everything.
Forward Air- no problems here
Picked up my kayak this week from Forward Air. Shipped 17’ plastic kayak cross country- on time, no problems. Double wrapped in heavy bubble wrap.
Re: the BBB
(Better Business Bureau)
Cooldoc, just for curiosity, you might want to call them, acting as a random consumer, and ask if they have any reports on file for that company.
My bet is, they won’t. Or they’ll say that “all complaints have been resolved”.
Many people don’t realize that the BBB is not in business for consumers, it’s “in business for business” (that’s their slogan, in fact). And it’s true, at least in my area, based on my personal experience.
The BBB collects money (memberships) from businesses; in return they offer an image of credibility in the eyes of consumers for that business. The BBB has no motivation to be on the side of the consumer - in fact, quite the opposite.
The only time I’ve seen the BBB stand up for a consumer against a company is if the company was engaged in an illegal business practice. Unethical is okay, illegal is where they draw the line.
Don’t count on them to help you, or to spread the word. Just FYI.
I don’t doubt the original poster
at all, but for the record, I’ve had probably 4-5 plastic kayaks shipped via Forward Air and have never had a problem.
However, I’m expecting a Pyranha Speeder next week, also via Forward Air, so hopefully I will have good luck on that one, too. But now, I’m getting worried…
Had a friend
He had a Thunderbolt that they stuck the forks of a forklift through both sides. He had a 4 month nightmare to get them to pay. I would never use them!!
what is it with forklifts?
boxed kayaks should have flourescent green letters in the middle “Your Mothers Ashes” for all the crates and boxes skewered by forklifts.
Write a strongly worded letter
Write a strongly worded letter about your experience and let them know that they have in their possession the packing material. Tell them that the clerk already has it from the inspection and it’s their fault if he didn’t do his job correctly.
Or call and tell whoever you get that they are going to fix your problem. If they say, I can try or I don’t know if I can until I hear about it, ask to speak to their boss. Don’t stop going up the line until you get someone to say that they will fix your problem and then tell them your problem.
For future reference for everyone: Always inspect boats in front of the truck driver, freight person, etc… If the boat is damaged refuse the shipment.
I am betting
that the kayak in question here is a not a plastic one. Seem to remember from Matt’s previuos posts that it might be a NDK Romney S.
All my three kayaks (two fiberglass from QCC and one thermoformed from Enlightened Kayaks came heavily bubble wrapped and in specially designed heavy cardboard contaners. QCC used a better grade of container, but no type of container is going to protect you from the fork lift driver from hell.
this thread should be called
FORWARD AIR IS DENYING MY CLAIM!!!
Matt’s thread could also be called:
“I just had a really bad experience with getting a boat shipped to me.
And that all you other p-netters who know me and my previous posts, know that I am a reasonable person, and that for me to have used capital letters in any post this experience had to have been a REALLY bad one for me.
And that if I post my experiences on p-net, in addition to getting sympathy and ideas on how to resolve my problem, I might just save some other p-netter from having to go through this crappy experience.”
Kind of a long title, perhaps.
Matt,
This WILL get resolved and I hope you will be paddling your dream Brit boat soon.
Mike
Forward Air is a great carrier!
I’ve shipped many boats with Forward Air and never had a problem. I’ve always felt that they recognized that the boats are fragile and took extra care. I’ve never had so much as a scratch on a boat. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not doubting your claim… truth is all carriers have mixed results when shipping big, composite boats. Give it time with FA and work the system, write the letters, escalate and elevate to higher levels… I’ll bet you come out OK.
Having said that, I’m actually surprised they even sold you the insurance in the first place. FA will not insure anything unless it is packaged in a structural crate… bubble-wrap and cardboard do not qualify.
Time for Matt to update
And answer–who is the boat from, private or dealer? What did happen to the packaging? And all the other questions mentioned by people above.
Similar experiences, esp. UPS
Truck lines have damaged some of my boats. I always insure and they usually pay. Your violating their procedures does not free them of all their legal liability.
I no longer use UPS. They damage often and have always denied claims, even with insurance.
When I’ve encountered problems I was usually able to find something on the Net that advized how to collect.
Insurance
I’ve used FA to ship boats and I know their policies.
I’d honestly like to know how you got them to sell you insurance in the first place. Their policy is that they absolutely will NOT insure a boat that is not packaged in a rigid, structural crate… bubble-wrap and cardboard do not qualify.
They’ve sold me insurance…
…when the boat I was shipping was only bubble and CB wrapped. Fortunately that one made it OK. I think the policy varies location to location.
Insurance
Yes, must be a local thing.
I try every time and every time I get the same answer!
If they insured it…
they have an obligation to cover the damages.
Obviously it would be better to protect anything from abuse in a crate.
Sounds like the seller and shipper gave you a lot of misinformation and were negligent in handling.
If they knew this was a glass kayak and sold you insurance then they accepted responsibility for delivering this kayak without damage how it was packaged.
The other employee should have told you to save the packaging.
I’m sorry I don’t have much knowledge of shipping.
I wanted to help then was confused, but bottom line is they sold you insurance and accepted responsibility.
UPDATE…
Thanks to all for your responses. Sorry to be slow to update but things have been busy and frankly this situation upsets me so I have been avoiding it for a few days.
Here are the details:
-I bought the boat from Chicago Kayak. They are a reputable dealer and I feel confident that the boat was not damaged before shipping.
-The boat was a Romany S, standard fiberglass layup. Your basic bombproof British boat.
-The boat was triple wrapped in heavy bubble wrap. This would be completely sufficient to protect the boat from anything other than absolute gross negligence.
-The damage could only have been caused by being rammed with a forklift, or from something VERY HEAVY being dropped on the boat.
-I unpacked the boat at the terminal in front of an employee. I annotated the damage at that time and they kept the packaging. He told me all I need to file a claim was the waybill.
-I filed a bompbroof claim: thorough letter, pictures, estimate, original invoice, waybill, catalog showing price of boat new, etc. Sent by certified mail.
-Forward Air denied my claim the first time becuase of insufficient documentation…needed an inpsection.
-Inspectors came out and looked at boat and then I got the second letter from them denying claim a second time for lack of packaging.
-I am about to write another letter that I will send certified. My angle will be as follows:
-I paid for insurance and they are not holding up their end of the bargain.
-I annotated the damage at the time of pickup. The employee inspected the damage, inspected the packaging, and then kept the packaging. At that time I notified them of the intent to file a claim.
-They have already inspected the packaging and have possession of it.
-They are liable for the actions of their employees and it is not my fault that their employees are ill-informed of the claims process.
-It gives the appearance of imporpriety when their employees tell you to do something that will automatically make your claim invalid.
-Threaten legal action, threaten negative influencing kayak dealers nation wide (which I will do…there are only so many and I know a lot of them).
-etc, etc, etc.
Basically I think it is BS. I paid for coverage and they really messed up my boat. It is a legitimate claim and I have acted exactly as informed. They really are doing more than just denying my claim…they truly are ripping me off. I think they are probably fine for shipping a plastic boat, but not for shipping a glass one.
Matt
That is indeed a rip off, B1.
Did you involve Chicago Kayak to put some heat on them from the seller end?
Let us know how this works out…
I would also go after the shipping company.
Thanks for all the information. I wanted to make sure you didn’t get it off eBay or something.
You may request a letter from Chicago kayaks saying the kayak was in good condition, etc, etc, and that the shipper damaged the boat.
Good thing you noted the inspection with the damage, so that’s your ace in the hole.
They also should have told you to save the materials or saved them themselves.
From my personal experience I wouldn’t accuse them of “ripping you off” (even though they are) just say that you don’t agree with their decision not to honor their own insurance policy that they sold you. You could also ask them if they are aware that it was opened and inspected at the termanal with an employee, who misinformed you, etc. etc. Also that it was left there.
I wouldn’t get too far into the specifics of the kayak either except that it was a kayak damaged by a forklift.
They knew good and well it was a kayak and sold you insurance.
If you can get a lawyer to write the letter. If not there is small claims court. Just make sure they know you have been put in a position in which you will have to take action to correct.
Don’t cuss at them or they will just use that against you. Be real nice but firm but let them know you disagree and you will take action.
good luck!