Don’t be too nice, Matt…
THEY ARE SCUM…
They have done this many times before…
Go get 'em!
What about the shipper?
It looks like Chicago Kayak selected the carrier, packed the boat, and shipped. You noted receipt of damaged merchandise but were not a party to that point. I can’t tell exactly what you did and if you legally accepted it at that point.
CK maybe should be in on this. Who bought the insurance? Who has the policy and what does it cover? What conditions? When I’ve used FA, their insurance was clear. UPS seemed to be more of a scam and I couldn’t even get a copy of the policy document from them.
What a horror show
Geez, imagine looking forward to getting your boat and then having something like that turn up. Good luck getting them to make restitution.
In the future, maybe have someone videorecord the unwrapping process, with walkaround shots of the entire boat inside and out. In other words, document it to hell to CYA. I would do this for any boat, plastic or glass or whatever.
Bubble wrap?
Having working in a shipping/recieving area, and driven a forklift, I think that 3 layers of bubble wrap alone is grossly inadequate to protect something like a composite kayak being shipped by truck. A hard crate would make much more sense. The easiest thing might be to get a Sonotube(concrete form) that’d fit the boat.
Speak with Cynthia at Chicago Kayak
She is an excellent resource, honorable person, and may be able to advise you how to proceed.
damaged kayak
This advice will be of no use to you now, but for others, maybe so. When it comes to major purchases (like a kayak) I always buy from local retailers to avoid the kinds of problems of which you speak (even if the item costs a little more). For example, I bought both of my kayaks from my local REI store because I have confidence that if there is any problem, I can return them for a full refund or exchange. If you live in a remote location, this may not be possible, I understand. PS - My only connection with REI is as a customer.
Sometimes life and boat buying
is not so simple.
Besides the REI store location issue (e.g. I live in rural New York on the Canadian border), an issue which you addressed in your post, there is always “the boat I want to buy is not the boat that stores like REI sell” issue. At least on the net, I don’t see that REI carries the NDK Romany S; maybe there is a local store that does. Note: I am a very happy REI member and continuous customer since 1965.
Then, what about boats that can only be purchased on the net, unless you live near point of manufacture (e.g. QCC)? I’ve purchased (3) boats that had to be shipped; luckily no shipping damage; and happy with each boat.
Unfortunately, Matt appears to have been not as lucky.
FA did ok by me…
– Last Updated: Jul-08-08 11:48 AM EST –
I admit to holding my breath as the kayak was brought to my car today:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v239/k7lro/Kayaks/Impex/?action=view¤t=Picture144.jpg
I don't think the shop did all that good a job of wrapping it but it had two Forward Air stickers on it - one said "Top Load Only" and the other was "Fragile - High Value Claim".
I asked the driver of the fork lift if I should upwrap it there and he said that was fine (I was gonna do it anyway) but cautioned me against leaving the shipping stuff there - they would send me a bill.
I peeled off layer after layer and there was no damage at all.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v239/k7lro/Kayaks/Impex/?action=view¤t=Picture157.jpg
At home -
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v239/k7lro/Kayaks/Impex/?action=view¤t=Picture159.jpg
EDIT: Son of a gun - was inspecting it closer this morning and noticed a small damaged area. Guess I'll be talking to FA today.
It's a relatively small area but will likely be a challenge to match in color.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v239/k7lro/Kayaks/Impex/?action=view¤t=Picture162.jpg
Oh well, you pay your money, you take your chances. I'll not let a little damage like this bother me too much. Unlike Matt, I think I got off easy in regards to damage and if they don't play ball, there's always small claims.
Well…
I agree that triple wrapped bubble wrap is not bomproof. My comment was pertaining to the boat not to the wrapping. An NDK boat is pretty much bombproof. I think that triple bubble wrap would provide an NDK boat adequate protection for all but gross negligence.
Apply the reasonable man principle. What is reasonable wear and tear from handling in shipping? I think that being handled roughly moved, and even dropped are reasonable. The bubble wrap should have protected it from that.
Is dropping an extremely heavy object on top of it reasonable? I don’t think so.
Not to mention that a kayak wrapped in bubble wrap is obviously not even a parcel that can have anything stacked on top of it. The shape alone should tell you that. If you had a bubble wrapped kayak in your wharehouse would you consider putting it on the bottom of the pile when stacking crates?
I think that the bubble wrap on an NDK kayak should protect it from any rough handling and anything short of just utter carelessness and negligence.
What reasonable person exercising the reasonable care we would expect of this person would do something to a triple wrapped NDK boat that would crush it?
We’re not talking about a gel coat crack or cosemetic damage. They crused it…put a hole in it. That would require what I would categorize as gross negligence.
I do appreciate the alternative points of view and don’t completely disagree, but take a step back and look at it for what it is.
Furthermore, it is obvious that they are just grasping at straws to deny my claim.
If they feel that the packing was not adequate to protect the parcel then they should have not have accepted the parcel given the amount of insurance was requested for it.
Again, you would have to really have to work hard to break an NDK boat in tripple bubble wrap. I think you could drop it, hit it with a sledge hammer, etc, and it would not sustain the damage it did. You would really have to be trying to mess it up.
I wrote a letter today and sent it by certified mail. I made every effort I could to show why their denial of my claim was not reasonable. We’ll see what happens.
I believe that there is a good chance they will end up paying the claim. The probably don’t expect most to go the distance, but I most certainly will…
Matt
I’m on your side
Matt - I’m on your side - just sharing my experience. I think you’re getting a bad deal but I actually think it’s part of their process. I’ll bet that they eventually pay up - you’ve got, IMHO, a great case and have made your points well. Nothing but good luck and best wishes from AZ.
Yep, I think you…
made your points very well. Now that you have provided all of the facts it’s clear that FA needs to honor their agreement.
I couldn’t reach a personal decision without knowing if you got this from a reputable store, etc. This was a valid and normal purchase, and FA agreed to ship it and insured it.
I hope this thread has added support and helped you cover all of your bases.
The insurance company should now have all the information they need to make the right decision.
They must have been misinformed about something.
It sounds like they backed over it with a truck.
We’ll see what happens
Once again, thanks for all the replies and assistance. Sorry if my last post sounded like I was on a soap box but I have some strong feelings about this situation.
Shipping glass kayaks can always be a bit risky. I have done it before in the past with mixed results; however, this time I truly did feel pretty good about it given that it was an NDK boat. I actually weighed this in advance and concluded that there was no way they could damage one of those even if they threw it off the truck. Well I guess where there’s a will there’s a way!
I get frustrated when the little guy takes in from behind and when companies / people take advantage of a situation. That seems to be the case here.
I paid for insurance. Had an item legitimately damaged by true negligence, have gone through all the wickets to file a claim, and now the company is trying not to hold up their end of the bargain. That’s just wrong and I don’t plan to make it easy on them.
The frustrating thing is that there is not a whole lot you can do about it as the consumer. I have been in similar situations when unethical landlords decided to keep my security deposit for bogus reasons and in other such situations.
In all these situations I have found it pretty frustrating that there is not much you can do about it other than take legal action which takes time and money etc.
I have always taken the approach of a thorough and dedicated letter writing campaign…knowing what to say and to whom you should write.
That was part of the point of this post. Not only did I want to inform others of what is happening to me so taht they can be forewarned, but I wanted to gather some ideas on how to approach this in my letters, etc.
I fired off a good one to the claims adjuster for the company. If that doesn’t work I will write to the Presidient of the company, customer service, etc. Also may have my neighbor (an attorney) draft up a letter for me to get their attention.
I’ll keep you posted…
In the meantime though I would not recommend shipping a glass kayak through Forward Air!!!
Matt
Isn’t it about time
to forward this thread to their customer service department?
After reading about how they’ve treated you, I wouldn’t ship anything through Forward Air.
Good luck in resolving this mess.
keeping things in perspective
You might want to separate apples from oranges.
FA is dragging their feet on paying. That’s a far cry from “where there’s a will, there’s a way”, concluding that they willfully destroyed your boat.
There’s a time and a place for hyperbole. Legal procedings is not the time or the place. Stay on topic, less drama queen.
“I actually weighed this in advance and concluded that there was no way they could damage one of those even if they threw it off the truck. Well I guess where there’s a will there’s a way!”
“I paid for insurance. Had an item legitimately damaged by true negligence, have gone through all the wickets to file a claim, and now the company is trying not to hold up their end of the bargain. That’s just wrong and I don’t plan to make it easy on them.”
Legal morass
– Last Updated: Jul-08-08 7:50 AM EST –
I recently had a bad experience with a trailer company in South Carolina called Trailerworks who agreed to refund my money and would not. Much more money than the boat in this thread of B1. The owner of that company is truly dishonorable and not recommended (will post under separate thread). I eventually got my money back from them after several months.
Bottom line in speaking with a local attorney about my case, the cost of the attorney plus other fees was going to escalate so fast, plus working with a company out of state for me (in SOuth Carolina), would be extremely high. Might have even involved travel to SOuth Carolina (I would have coupled it with a bbrazil paddle, though) to file in theri local courts. But anyhow, before ever mentioning legal action--which is the first thing on everyone's tongue in situatuions like this--better understand the cost, time, the fact that Forward Air has lawyers on payroll if they got serious, and understand that the cost of repairing or even replacing the boat are likely less than the entire process.
That said, Donna1234 had an idea about State's Attorney. I was about to do this in my state and theirs. Check the states attorney website in your state--they have a place to file for fraud (which selling insurance and not giving it is), and they will at least send a nastygram to Forward Air on your behalf (and likely little else). NO one wants to be on the state's attorney poop list.
For instance, here is the website for Maryland:
http://www.oag.state.md.us/
Notice "protecting consumers" tab on top. Douglas F. Gansler looks like he'd roll up his sleeves on your behalf--at least for a photo op.
Hey, it's free and you have nothing to lose by filing an honest consumer complaint. You are indeed being ripped off, as you state it. I appreciate your taking the time to write this. Based on your experience and others ehere, I will never ship a glass boat--FA or anything else.
Thanks B1 for sending me the ocean Valley cockpit cover. Yours, Cd1
Not much hope there
The website may give that appearance for political currency. They aren’t staffed to chase down the thousands of complaints they get. It’s been my experience that you just get a form letter suggesting it sounds more like a matter for civil courts. The state insurance board might be another matter.
Small claims court is a possibility. It doesn’t cost you much to file. If they have an operation in your county, you can file on your home field.
They won’t send a lawayer for that. But they are looking at tieing up an employee for half a day and paying court costs on top of damages.
When shipping a boat, I make grab loops from nylon line for the middle and ends. It makes it easy for them to move around without a machine.
I still don’t see how you’re on the hook and the shipper isn’t. The contract is between them and the carrier.
Good experience with Forward Air
In mid-2004, Forward Air shipped a pristine Mad River Monarch that I’d purchased from MA down to GA. It did come out with a new crack in it where it appeared to have been squeezed hard. Disappointing but not all that surprising given the shipment by common carrier - it can be pretty rough inside those trailers.
Forward Air was very professional in following up with me and reimbursing me for the damage.
I’m sorry you are having a bad experience - perhaps they have changed.
I was joking…
– Last Updated: Jul-08-08 5:00 PM EST –
"where there's a will there's a way" was an attempt at looking at the situation from a humorous perspective....the glass is half full kind of thing. I know that they did not intentionally break my kayak, nor would I put that sort of thing in my letter....I kept it very professional on non-emotional.
My point was that I would have never expected that they would have been able to break an NDK but somehow it happened which was somewhat shocking to me.
Can’t blame a dog for barking …
Foward Air is a Freight moving company …
If it’s not in a crate its gonna get messed up … The place using them should know this.
A plywood crate takes all of 1 hour to make.
Put a couple grab loops on the ends and the Forward air guys will be patting you on the back saying thanks !
Sorry man…
Shippers should reject any package
they feel they cannot move without damaging. Forward Air should have rejected the boat if it was not properly packaged. Once they accept it for shipment, the responsibility is now theirs. I have had TWO sof kits shipped to me recently, both were damaged to the point that both had to be returned. In one case the damage was so obvious that I rejected the shipment, in the other I had to unwrap it to find out. By accepting the shipment, you have lost half of the battle with these A holes. Then you get to bicker with some lady on the other side of the country about why you signed for it, and what is hidden damage, and why I threw out the packaging, and how much time has passed, and so on and so forth. You must get the person with the most clout to get these morons to cover the damage they created. Good luck.