Cliff that is too Funny!!!
By the way if you find the answer to your question, please email me.
Ditto
How rude
Nice that you change your post after someone replies to it.
Of course people have always pushed
The boundaries, (sometimes to there detriment & those sent to rescue them)
Edmund Hilary is a classic case in point, nowadays you can do it with a organisation.
http://www.alpineascents.com/everest.asp
Is that disrespectful to those who went before ?
Last year a group of UK “celebrities” climbed Mount Kilimanjaro (complete with film crew) to raise money for charity, is that disrespectful ?
I could go on but I hope you get my point.
Thanks for posting
I enjoyed the pictures and the discussion. Wish she would come to Florida.
Your daughter also sounds like an amazing young woman, and what a great day she had. Her remarks show a lot of maturity.
?
– Last Updated: Feb-17-10 9:28 PM EST –
You edited the post above mine. As a result, entire paragraphs in mine now replied to nothing. So I cut them out. I don't understand the double standard: You can edit but I cannot. You can write about Freya before you met her but I cannot.
Listen, Dan, I'm sure you yourself are a very nice guy, but these Freya threads seem to go south real fast. Please, stop and take a breath. I'm sure she is charming, modest, inspiring, etc. Certainly one of the greatest paddlers who has ever lived. But why do you have such unrealistic all-or-nothing expectations about your idols? This isn't third grade. Bobby Fischer was the greatest chess player who ever lived, but that doesn't mean I'd want to pattern my life on him.
Excuse me?
I edited a single typo in my post. That was it – and I did that long before you replied. Not only did you change the entire message of your post, but you also deleted another post that you made after it. Don’t wag your skinny little finger at me.
As far as Freya goes, the threads about her go south because people like yourself get on your moral high ground and post a bunch of moralistic and self-righteous BS. So what if Freya has a lot of relationships – who are you to judge? Her relationship with her son, quite frankly is her business. That her son spent a year with his father does not make Freya some sort of evil demon – I know for a fact that she loves her son very much and was in touch with him via satellite communications throughout her trip. You want to ask her about it? Ask her. Publicly or not, she’ll give an honest answer – there’s nothing taboo about inquiring about such a thing – it’s an honest question about something associated with her trip. She’s an honest straight forward woman who would not hesitate to give you an answer when the question is fair.
My opinion of her is not unrealistic – in fact it’s extremely realistic. I accept her accomplishments for what they are and don’t judge her personal life – because it doesn’t effect me one way or the other. You said your piece in these discussions but that’s not good enough for you, is it? You’ve got to attack everyone who has something positive to say about the woman – and you do it relentlessly at every opportunity.
The issue I have with people like you is just because someone lives their life in a manner that you disagree with, you become mean-spirited and hurtful. Yes, hurtful. It tells me a lot about your character, or lack of it.
I know one thing for sure; Freya tells it like it is and she lives her life to the fullest and she’s a whole lot more honest than you are.
If you’ve anything more to say about it, tell it to someone else. I’ve had enough of your narrow-minded, self-important views.
Dan
http://www.westcoastpaddler.com
I do get your point.
Cockneykayaker, I wasn’t disagreeing with you and don’t think doing an expedition with a financial purpose is disrespectful to the people who came before – not in the least.
I don’t think that anyone should be knocked however, because they don’t do an expedition for charity. It’s a personal choice, not a selfish one, and everyone has different motives for doing their trips. Just because someone doesn’t do their trip in the name of some cause, doesn’t mean that they don’t care. Nigel Dennis didn’t raise money for a cause on his South Georgia circumnavigation and I’m totally fine with that. Supporting a charity is not a requirement, nor is not doing so a detriment to the achievement.
I do get your point (at no time was I disagreeing with you), and I also hope that you get mine.
Thanks.
Dan
http://www.westcoastpaddler.com
hero loathing/worship
It’s human nature to want to create heroes out of people. We’ve had heros and idols for as long as civilization has existed. Every community has it’s heros and villains. It is also human nature to try and poke holes in the people that are being lauded as heroes.
I think the discussion is productive to a point as it casts a light on what we find worth celebrating in a person and what we don’t.
This board has clearly got some issues with this particular person within the paddling community. Some want to make a villain out of her, and some want to hero worship her. And some in-between. The way that she is portrayed she seems like Medea, which is pretty funny.
I find it funny that people can judge her parenting choices. Who among us is the perfect parent?..
I wonder if the judgement of her is a statement about the desire to do a trip like Freya’s, but a lack of willpower, ability, and for lack of a better term balls prevent those that are criticizing from doing so.
Thanks Sissy
I know that there are efforts being made for Freya to extend her speaking tour to a few east coast venues. Hopefully you’ll have the opportunity to see her.
Thanks for the comments about my daughter – I too think she’s pretty cool (I’m her biggest fan). 
Freya definitely made a huge positive impression upon Maddie and she offered her some great advice, guidance, and encouragement. It was obvious to me that there was a great deal of mutual respect between the two. It was really nice to see.
Dan
http://www.westcoastpaddler.com
help me out here
– Last Updated: Feb-17-10 12:50 PM EST –
Of the two, which do you see in this thread:
1. Villianizing Freya
2. Idolizing Freya
I think the OP is overlyt defensive about someone else judgind freya for themselves. It sounds like we're all supposed to hold her in highest regard and not ask questions that should be asked, like how can something like her expedition affect family members? I think anyone who thinks they can just go off on an exp without asking questions such as these is kidding themselves (I'm sure freya went through this process). But we're not supposed to ask these questions, even in the polite and reflective way that bowrudder did in his OP.
Finally - I think it's curious that you allow yourself to do the same thing to people who view freya differently that you accuse them of doing. I think it's cowardly for you to assign motives to those who disagree with you without asking them. Perhaps the reason for their different view is that they simply don't share the same brain as you so.
please don’t take this personally
I’m wondering why you’re so critical and unaccepting of people having views of their own on freya. I think it’s great you got to se her and even better that you involved your daughter. But you don’t want to accept anyone else’s divergent or deeper perspective on her. Can you explain why?
I had the chance to meet Bobby Knight a few years back. Now I’m not making a comparison between the two other than to say that I found coach knight to be a polite and engaging person. But I’m not going to form my perspective of him solely on this meeting.
You ask bowrudder if he has ever met freya. Well - have you ever met bowrudder? Well, you’re judging him even more harshly.
One thing that more often than not true in idolatry and hero worship is that the subject is more complex than the image one has of the person. I can guarantee you in return that if I were to meet freya, regardless of how positive the impression she made during a presentation, that I wouldn’t base my view of her only on that meeting.
I disagree with you as to why these threads fall apart. They fall apart for the same reason most do: because people can’t accept differing viewpoints.
There’s both
vilifying and idolatry, but definitely more of the former.
Not saying you should do anything. Just making an observation on the continuing commentary on Freya and other expeditioner/adventurers that are posted about here over time. People said some of the same stuff about Andrew McCauley after he died.
Not sure my analysis is dead on about why people are doing it over and over again. But there is certainly something deep and freudian/jungian about it because it keeps coming up. I was annoyed earlier, but now I am fascinated by the amount of times it comes up.
No.
I’m not saying that you or anyone else shouldn’t have an opinion, nor am I implying that – even if the opinion is different than my own. And I certainly didn’t say that no one should ask those questions, in fact, if you read my posts you’ll see that I encouraged asking those questions.
What I do have a problem with is the hurtful and self-righteous judgmental attitude of one particular member on this site. I made this abundantly clear already in an earlier post.
For the record, I don’t idolize Freya but I have a great deal of respect for her and her accomplishments. Feel free however to consider my enthusiasm for her achievements as idolizing if you prefer.
Dan
http://www.westcoastpaddler.com
I very much accept differing opinions
What I don’t condone is hurtful comments coming from someone who feels that they are morally superior.
Dan
http://www.westcoastpaddler.com
I think
you should all meet by the flagpole after school and fight to prove who’s right…
Why not meet along the river?
Then the most righteous amongst them can baptize the rest.
Yes
That would work too 
You think because
some watery tart chucks a scimitar at you, you have the right to be king?
Technically
it should probably be a “shake a wet stick”
“Shaking a wet stick” may be taken both literally and figuratively.