lot of boat?
“16’ sounds like a lot of boat to me”
I thought the same thing earlier this year when I decided to move up from a rec boat (Loon 138) to a touring kayak. I started by looking at 14-15’ boats and from there I started looking 16-17’ boats. When I finally got my boat (used CD Scirocco) I was surprised that on the water (and even on shore) that I didn’t find a 17’ boat hard the manage at all; much easier then I thought it would be.
Sure do wish I would have made the jump sooner as I enjoy paddling much more and can handle a lot more different conditions.
Alan
lot of boat
It’s not just length. I’ve been in 18’ boats that felt too small, and 8’ boats that felt huge. Beam, depth, volume, cockpit fit, and hull design are all part of finding a good match for your size and paddling style. A boat that’s too deep or too wide will be difficult to paddle well regardless of length. Given your size, you should focus on kayaks designed for small-to-medium sized paddlers.
Consider used glass or sng/woodstrip?
To help with the weight of the boat, you may be able to find a used sng/strip kayak or commercial fiberglass boat for a manageable price. Another option is to have someone build a sng boat of your choice. That way you get to choose the model and have it customized for you. The fee may not be all to different than a new RM boat?
Good luck with your search and keep us posted.
Bob
More around the next corner
– Last Updated: Oct-20-06 10:55 AM EST –
We went thru this in slow stages ourselves, just in a different bay. First you figure that life will be perfect when you can safely make it to that island that is just a quarter or a half mile from shore, looks like you could touch it on a clear day. Then you get there and there's another one, and heck it's just another thousand feet - the length of a street block maybe so it's gotta be close enough, right? Or you are going along the shore and there is this point that looks OK right then to get around, and all you have to do is make it to the other side and there'll be another cool bay to explore along the shoreline... and so on.
Then you decide it's time to go back home, and you now encounter wind and tide that have changed and what was a nothing paddle to get to where you are has become rather more challenging to get back across. Oops! So do you land anywhere and walk a looong way back to the car, or take a chance you can make it thru that thousand feet between safe spots. And there are major rocks on the shore with crashing white stuff, so even sitting what you thought was a nice, safe 50 feet from shore isn't going to give you a chance to get in unless you decide to try and land among the rocks and waves. In fact, maybe you have to get further away from shore to stay out of the soup.
In other words, you are now truly sea kayaking whether you planned to or not. The question running thru your head is what could be considered a motto for kayaking big water -"Geez, I had no idea that it could it get this bad so fast!"
I've just described a reasonably likely event around Mount Desert Island, from the bit of it we saw at the symposium. I certainly described some actual events in our earlier kayaking times in Musongous Bay, and I bet most on this board who get into salty water have a similar story or two.
As others more knowledgeable than me have said, a 16' boat isn't "big" unless it is a hull design that won't respond to your size and weight. At your size, a bit more than me, you have a decent array of options out there. In fact you'd find a 16' Avocet to be a whole lot more responsive than a 9' Swifty in the way you need.
You are sitting on top of a great resource with Mel and Mark at Aquaterra, and the availability of Great Long Pond as a flatwater training ground is a real bonus. And the worst that happens if you get some solid sea kayaking skills is that you may be more prepared for problems than others in your cohort - hardly a bad thing.
let’s consider this from a different
perspective.
What say you (any of you)if I were to limit my sea kayaking to a once or twice a year adventurous splurge with a group tour rental kind of thing. And so if I focused the majority of my paddling time on primarily small to medium size lakes, ponds, slow moving rivers and streams for the purpose of wildlife exploration, picnic lunch on an island, relaxation, eagle and loon watching and etc… whether it be solo paddling or in the company of others with a similar interest,what kayaks (brand,length)should I seriously be considering? The same as recommended above or would the field be opened to smaller ones?
Thanks so much for the feedback and suggestions.
~Trish
other considerations
As I mentioned earlier in the thread I recently went from a rec kayak (Loon 138) to touring kayaks. I don’t live anywhere near the ocean and even the great lakes are about an 8 hour drive from me. I’m stuck in the middle prairie with mainly small lakes and slow rivers.
Because of that I decided that to go along with the touring kayak I was going to get I should also get a smaller, shorter, lighter boat just for poking around those smaller lakes and rivers. To use for just general site seeing, fishing, and throwing on top of the car when car camping. I ended up buying a new Current Designs Kestrel in TCS. A 12.5’ boat that’s 26" wide and weighs only 40lbs. Very light, very pretty, and paddles very well for its size. I was absolutely tickled pink with it.
Then about 3 weeks after I bought it I bought my touring kayak at just under 17’. The first time I took it out I went with a fried and I brought both my kayaks and we switched off halfway through the paddle. When I went from my touring kayak to the little Kestrel rec kayak it felt like stepping into a bath tub and it really felt like a little pig when I paddled it. I haven’t paddled it on my own since I got my touring kayak.
Granted this all happened in the fall so I haven’t been able to spend a lot time with them in different conditions and our river is too low to run right now. But I’m thinking of selling the Kestrel in the spring and using a touring kayak about 16’ long for my general small lakes/river kayak (found a used Prijon Seayak cheap locally). I just don’t have an issue doing anything out of the longer and narrower touring boats. I find the day paddles much more enjoyable because of the efficiency and I’ve even fished out of it successfully without problems.
It also lets me get out in conditions I wouldn’t think of taking the rec boat out in (like wind, which we have plenty of) and for the first time in my entire boating life I actually enjoy being out in the wind because I have a boat that can handle it and it breaks up the monotony of flatwater paddling on the same bodies of water. I won’t really know until the spring when I can get them both out for some more trials, but I think the rec boat is going bye bye.
The new scenario you describe of buying a rec boat and renting a touring kayak when needed sounds plausible and makes sense. But I’d still urge you to look into something like a 16’ boat for even your everyday boat. I think you’ll find it easier to manage then you think and if you’re anything like me you’ll find it much more enjoyable to paddle. It will also give you many more options then just puttering around in calm waters.
Alan
more options
"It will also give you many more options then just puttering around in calm waters."
Alan- Yes, options- a good thing.
For some reason,I seem to want to create divisions about which kayak is best for what. As an example- a 16-17’ boat (to my mind)is best suited for sea kayaking only, or maybe big waters similar to The Great Lakes. I hear you when you suggest that 16’ boats are capable of creating more options in conditions in any kind of water.
Thank you for clarifing that for me!
Have you come across any occurances yet with your larger boat that caused you to wish you were in the rec boat? Just curious.
~Trish
versatility
I enjoy using my Avocet(16’ x 22") for poking around on inland lakes. It’s one of the more manueverable sea kayaks, and once you get comfortable putting it on edge it’ll outturn many shorter boats paddled flat. I also enjoy being able to easily roll to cool off in hot weather, and have no trouble fishing from it. I have often wished for a lighter boat, but not necessarily a shorter one or wider one.
My wife has a Wilderness Systems Tchaika(14’ x 21", 40 pounds) that’s great fun as a day boat. I’ve been tempted by the Pygmy Tern 14. The Hurricane Tamico 135S looks good. I recently saw a Puffin Swift folder that looked nice, was reasonably priced, and was only 26 pounds.
The big problem with shorter boats is finding ones that aren’t ridiculously beamy or deep for small paddlers. My wife is barely 5’ tall, so it’s something I’ve had to deal with.
If you want to develop skills that’ll work in a sea kayak, I’d look for something that’ll take a standard spray skirt so you can play with edging and leaning.
big boat in small water
Last season i did a fair bit of poking around in little slow rivers in my 17 ft cape horn and honestly the only times i found the size to be a limiting factor or hassle is for trying pick up garbage off the shore of this little river. otherwise,no problem at all.
Trish you should have a look at some 14 footers like Liquid Logic Pisgah,Wilderness Syst. Capehorn 140(should be less of a barge than the tsunami 120/140),Necky Elaho sport or Looksha sport if you can find one of those used. or a P&H Easky 13/15. Sounds like those will be as much boat as you’ll realistically want and you’ll be happier with a shorter boat that are a bit(marginally) easier to handle on land.
You could…
– Last Updated: Oct-21-06 6:49 PM EST –
get a shorter lighter boat for inland stuff. And you might be one of the people for whom that works fine as a long term choice. The problem with that, and you are hearing much about it here, is that it is dreadfully common for people to get into a bit more boat, try for a bit more skills, and at some point find out that anything less than a 16' boat has become a storage device for odds and ends in your basement or back yard.
There is also a good point that was made above - the weight diff between a given 13-14 ft boat and a 16' boat in equivalent materials is pretty negligible in terms of handling. For either, to handle it alone you are likely to end up with rollers and wheels, blanket on the ground and a cart to slide it off and onto the top of the car and get it to the launch point. This ends up being how most women handle their boats by themselves, and while it is a little time consuming I've done it plenty and it certainly works. In fact a somewhat longer boat makes this easier if anything - props better on an angle whaile you walk around it to grab the cockpit and slide it onto the cart.
I really think that you have to start with getting a much better sense of what you enjoy in the paddling experience. It may be that you are restricting yourself to the idea of very protected paddling because that is what you will ultimately most enjoy, but it is at least as likely that you are thinking that way because you are hesitant about your ability to learn the skills that would be needed for the bigger environments.
One option would be to go out on some trips thru Aquaterra that may get onto bigger water than you'd try yourself when things warm up next year. If you get out there and can't stand being a distance from shore, it'll simplify a lot. But if you look around at the view and things in the distance and just think "Cool!" - well, welcome to the never-ending story. In fact, how did you like that trip you mentioned with the Dagger Magellan?
You need some amount of skills to paddle anyway, and get by the wet exit/upside-down thing if you haven't already. It's just basic practice that is needed to be safe out in a boat, flat water or bumpy.
Really and really - try to hook up with some skills work over the winter in a nice, warm pool. It'd give you a chance to get by some of your concerns, see how a "bigger" boat felt, and maybe have a clearer basis for what to do about the boat than you do right now.
Sonoma 13.5
My short boat is a Perception Sonoma 13.5. I have to order a seasock for it, but I find it stable, maneuverable, and quick - as well as very light.
not yet
I’ve yet to find a situation with my touring boat that I wished I had my rec boat out instead; but understand that I’ve only had it a little over a month and it hasn’t been the best weather. But after seeing how the touring boat handled and looking at the water and conditions around here the only time I could see wanting the shorter rec boat over the touring boat would be if I was on a shallow water lake/slough and for whatever reason was trying to manuever through a bunch of reeds sticking out of the water or something like that. That would be a rare occassion for me though and even on small bodies of water the touring yak does fine…though it does make them seem a lot smaller. 
Alan
Celia
"In fact, how did you like that trip you mentioned with the Dagger Magellan?"
Well- the scenery was gorgeous for sure. The boat felt like I was looking down the hood of one of those big ol ancient Cadillac’s after driving a VW Beetle. I had some trouble with turning it in a small area. To use the same analogy as above- it felt like parking a Cadi versus the V.W in terms of size. I spent most of my time trying to keep up with the others in my group who more than made up for in youthful energy what they were lacking in ability, so I didn’t get much time to pay attention to what the boat was doing or not doing. I do remember feeling like we were a long ways from shore when doing a crossing. What kept me from feeling anxious about that was just keeping focused on where we were going rather than thinking about what we just left, and how far away it was getting.
It was a little scary… definitely.
I would try it again though. Maybe with a different tour group however.
Rider
"Trish you should have a look at some 14 footers like Liquid Logic Pisgah,Wilderness Syst. Capehorn 140(should be less of a barge than the tsunami 120/140),Necky Elaho sport or Looksha sport if you can find one of those used. or a P&H Easky 13/15."
Thanks for the suggestions, Rider, and for sharing your experiences with the Cape Horn.
I’ll add them to my list of possibilities.
Alan
Hmmmm…
I recently went paddling with someone on a stream that was about the width of a 2 lane road. I wonder how a 16-17 foot boat would be to turn around on something like that. There were lots of down trees hanging over the water and stumps to manuever around.
Although my little 11’Necky did fine, I recognize the absolute need for more skill development on my part if I move up into something like a touring kayak.
And if I may ask, what IS the difference between a touring kayak and a sea kayak?
seasock?
Raymndmom- Thanks for weighing in with your experience with a 13’5 Sonoma. Would that be considered a rec boat or a touring boat?
And forgive my ignorance, but what the heck is a Seasock?
Thanks.
Angstrom
"My wife has a Wilderness Systems Tchaika(14’ x 21", 40 pounds) that’s great fun as a day boat."
Does she take this out with you on the lakes you described, and does it meet her expectations for the day? Does she have this boat rather than a 16’ boat like the Avocet because of her height or does she just find it to be a better match for what she wants to do on the water.
Sorry if this seems like too many questions- just trying to learn. Thanks for your patience.
Seasock
A seasock is a liner that fits inside the cockpit. You sit in it and the sprayskirt goes on top. The Sonoma doesn’t have a bow bulkhead, therefore, if I were considering wet exiting, I would need a seasock so as not to take on too much water. That is why I would consider it more of a rec boat, but it isn’t too beamy and moves along well. At 38lbs, it’s easy to lift.
I took a class in the Magellan. I thought it was very stable and turned ok. But it appeared that it took more effort to paddle than my fg boat. I put my son in a Dagger Charleston because he has poor balance, his boat before that was a Piccolo, which is a bit tippy - but short.
no - - not yet
But I wouldn’t try white water with it.
a touring kayak and a sea kayak
"…what IS the difference between a touring kayak and a sea kayak?"
For most of my paddling life touring boat and sea kayak were synonomous. Recently marketers/manufacturers have decided to term transitional boats (those that fall somewhere between sea kayaks and rec boats) ‘touring kayaks.’
Touring kayak now seems to be any boat that is not quite a full sea kayak but is someaht more than a rec boat.
I’m afraid from years of habit, I tend to use touring to mean sea.