Tchaika
Trish -
My wife has had the Tchaika out in conditions from placid ponds up to serious whitecaps on a large inland lake, and been very comfortable in it. It fits her proportions better than any other kayak she’s tried, which makes her much more comfortable and confident. She’s got a short torso and arms, so the narrow beam and low deck height work well for her. Being able to carry it herself is also a big plus.
She did own a plastic Avocet for a while, and paddled it in a variety of conditions on the Great Lakes, but even with cockpit modifications she said it felt too big for her. It wasn’t the length that was the problem – the overall proprtions just didn’t quite work for her.
External dimensions can be decieving. Boats that look similar on paper can feel very different.
Caddy/Beetle
I can understand that feeling. Some sea kayaks do feel like a big Cadillac, and a big cockpit can be like sliding around on a bench seat. On the other hand, the right boat properly outfitted will be very responsive, and once you get comfortable on edge you can make it dance. For me, a boat that's too stable is frustratng because it limits the turning options.
Since you are smaller than the mythical "average" paddler, and female, you will be more stable in a given boat than a 200-pound guy. Keep that in mind when you hear descriptions of how stable or "tippy" a kayak is.
My take on the Magellan
Not trying to offend those who might like this boat, but it is one of maybe three boats that I've ever gotten into and found realtively unreassuring. It yaws rather than turns - it is stiff and resistant to carving a nice turn without a lot of work on thepaddler's part.
Trish, I suspect that you were out with Aquaterra because until they started adding better boats to their fleet, they had a bunch of Magellans. They have since added Avocets, at least they had some available for rental during the Symposium, which are both more active in the water and have a much more reassuring feel. Also turn waaay better - the above comment is right, you are too lightweight to get the Magellan's attention.
As to the scarey part - if you are dumped into a boat and feel like you don't know what to do with it, or what to expect in terms of how it'll feel in more open water, feeling intimidated is a pretty normal response. In fact it is probably a more sensible response than not having a care in the world. But it doesn't mean you can't handle it, it just means that you need some explanation and instruction so you know what is going on. You obviously stayed upright since there are no stories of being rescued, so you did fine.
Start with some instruction - if conditions negatively impact your comfort in a boat it's going to mess up your ability to relax and enjoy paddling even for inland situations, for example if a wind comes up. At the least for wet exit and self-rescue, something that should be regarded as de rigor for anyone paddling alone.
tippy or stable
"Since you are smaller than the mythical “average” paddler, and female, you will be more stable in a given boat than a 200-pound guy. Keep that in mind when you hear descriptions of how stable or 'tipy" a kayak is."
Angstrom- I hear you on this. Sounds like making sweeping generalizations about which boats are stable and which are not is not especially useful. It’s more about finding a good match between an individual and a boat by looking at certain criteria- such as body weight and proportions,in conjunction with comfort level and skills.
those big ol ancient Cadillac’s
Anyone under 200 pounds would feel that way in a Magellan.
Most sea kayaks, if matched to paddler size, do not feel like land yachts.
No, not Aquaterra
Celia-
No, I don’t believe I did my group tour with Aquaterra unless they have a 3rd division under a different name.
Maine is large in area, but small in community and so I won’t give the name on a pubic forum.
Talking about what a group tour should and shouldn’t include would probably be a great subject for a different thread, so I will limit my comments about my over all experience with where I went. Although like most experiences there were some negatives and aso some positives!
You are correct when you say I must not have capsized. I definitely would have mentioned that if I had. 
I never felt I was in danger of that. The water conditions that day were smooth and the guide thought we wouldn’t need skirts. But given my only experience of flat water paddling, the water felt sooooo big to me and of course there was lots of motor boat activity and the subsequent swells.
I hear you on the importance of instruction, self rescue and assisting others. I plan to look into Aquaterra at Bar Harbor and maybe the place on Peaks Island in the Spring. I really love paddling and want to learn more,for sure.
Funny (but not really) thing though is that when I purchased my first kayak last year, an Old Town Loon 100, I specifically asked about the need for lessons and the reply was “no way.” Just get out there and enjoy your boat, I was told.
Wouldn’t you think that they would answer that question a little more cautiously at best?
We’ve had 3 paddling deaths in Maine in the past 4-6 weeks. One canoe and two kayaks.
Such a tragedy…
Thanks so much everyone!
~Trish
Tchaika
I have a Tchaika, but I haven’t paddled it yet. As a beginner, I still feel more comfortable in longer boats if they are narrow. And if I rememebr correctly, it doesn’t have a front bulkhead.
I paddled an Avocet for two classes last month - about 16 hrs. It was ok, but I didn’t feel an urge to buy one, probably too big for me.
Streams
Yes, if you’re paddling small streams then a longer boat would be a hindrance. Around here paddling small streams isn’t much of an option anyway so it makes no matter to me.
As for the difference between a touring/sea kayak. Whether it be right or wrong I tend use the two interchangeably.
Alan
Magellan
Another class I took in September, used Magellans. I tried one the first day, but found it boring. Then I used my son’s Charleston and then my Kajak Sport Millenium. The very beginner paddlers didn’t want to try my yak, but even though it is not the best fit for me, it was still better in terms of comfort and paddling then the Magellan. I would say that if you have some experience in a kayak and enjoy paddling, then your learning curve will be high and your impressions of a yak will change quickly.
touring vs rec boat
"Touring kayak now seems to be any boat that is not quite a full sea kayak but is someaht more than a rec boat."- Wilsoj2
So if working under the premise that there is a distinct difference between the two types of boats- what would that difference be? For example what does a sea kayak have that a touring boat doesn’t? Or put differently, what is a touring boat lacking?
Thanks for all the help as I develop my understanding of kayaks from my computer.
You all can probably tell I’ve put my rec boat away for the winter.
~Trish
learning curve
"I would say that if you have some experience in a kayak and enjoy paddling, then your learning curve will be high and your impressions of a yak will change quickly."- RaymondMom
I think what you are suggesting is to maybe find a boat that is within one’s comfort level and therefore instills confidence but at the same time provides one with a growth challenge.
Kind of like finding a balance between the two?
Because otherwise,I might be looking for yet another boat in a year’s time.
I’m beginning to understand why some people have lots of boats.
And then there is the obsession factor as well, I imagine.
Hmmmm… interesting stuff, folks.
Thanks for all comments and suggestions- very helpful.
~Trish
Sea Kayaks v. Touring Boats
The latter are also called transition boats by some, a more accurate term IMO. They are intended to be more capable than a rec boat but not have the features (erto cost) or length of most sea kayaks, and are promoted for "bigger" water. They are often recommended by well-meaning folks for paddlers who are still approaching the sport with a fear of wet exits, or of being trapped or of "tippiness". As a result, they usually have cockpits that are large and roomy to the point that there really isn't much of anything that the paddler can use to control the boat, especially a woman, and high decks that seem to mostly function so that it is darned near impossible for a lot of older or less fit women to perform a self-rescue. They are generally at least 24 inches wide plus, where a sea kayak is coming in closer to 22 inches wide these days. The added width provides a sense of better initial stability, ie it doesn't wigggle a lot in flat water, but they are often less likely to recover an upright position easily if you get caught in the soup.
The reality of hull design is that, so far anyway, they haven't figured out how to design a hull that sits equally quietly in both flat water and in waves. A hull is going to favor one or the other, and a sea kayak necessaily has to be able to lean over further without capsizing because it is out there in waves. So on flat water it wiggles all over the place - this does not mean it is going to capsize at all. It just means it is going to go over further before returning to an upright position - a behavior that most paddlers new to sea kayaks find alarming but over time you find creates a very safe feeling.
This is not stuff that gets explained to paddlers who sign up for a three hour tour. Classes or lessons are the place to get this.
The other features that sea kayaks have that are often missing in a lot of what they call "touring boats" these days are things that, IMO, are basic safety factors especially if you are likely to be paddling alone. And I mean this for any water, ponds and lakes and rivers as well as ocean. I know of some who have gone thru and retrofitted a touring boat to have these features, but in the end it is a matter of dimishing returns. The hull of a boat is like the frame of a bike - there is only so much you can do to the stuff attached to it before you have overimproved a base that is not fundamentally good for what you want to do.
The biggest things that touring recs often lack:
Sealed bulkheads at each end. So the only way to make them safe in case of a capsize is to get float bags to that there will be air in each end and the boat is assured to stay flat on the water while you sort out getting back in.
Full perimeter rigging; Rope around the edge of both the stern and the bow portions of the boat so that you can hang onto it in case of a capsize. It is astounding how quickly you and your boat can end up 50 feet apart on a windy day.
Deck rigging, stretchy bungies, behind the seat for a paddle-float self-rescue.
And good fit - that is a cockpit and thigh braces that allow the paddler to really control the boat with their legs and hips. You manage one of these things by edging, and without that contact edging isn't going to be in the cards. Or you'll not do it because you are sticking bony kneecaps into the side of a boat to emulate it, and it hurts.
The high decks are also a safety issue - I was talking to a woman in the parking lot after Yoga uesterday who went out and got another boat after she found out that she could not get herself back into her earlier boat because the deck was so high. She couldn't get herself lifted over it, and she frequently paddled alone. This is something that guys tend to forget about - women have proportionately more weight to heft over the top of a boat than guys do because of our mid-sections. Makes rolling easier, but it's a real problem for some of the other moves.
In case you have gotten the sense that I find very limited use for many of the "touring" boats, you are right. I have worked with too many women in local ad hoc skills sessions in these things who couldn't manage the most fundamental self-rescues almost purely because they were not able to overcome the problems of the boat. I have come to the point that, if someone is going to be paddling alone especially, I would be most comfortable if they were in a Swifty 10 feet from shore or in a fully equipped 16 foot sea kayak. There are exceptions in the middle that are really good, solid boats but they are not what most new paddlers actually buy.
As to the guy who said you didn't need lessons - to give him a little credit he isn't so wrong as long as you don't use a skirt, stay within an easily swimmable distance from shore, paddle in warm water and air temps, avoid real windy or wavey consitions and dress for immersion. And for someone looking to buy a Loon, this may be all that they will end up trying. But if you want to edge along the shoreline of Bar Harbor, even in bays, you will find yourself in cold water, at some point in more difficult conditions, and will want to get comfy with the use of a skirt. In sum - for what you want to do now, lessons are more than apt.
Based on the dialogue to date, I'd advise you to hold onto your checkbook until you've had some lessons and have a better sense of what boats do what.
Bulkhead
You’re right, it doesn’t have a front bulkhead. I made a non-watertight bulkhead that attaches to an extra pair of footpegs on the footpeg rail, and holds a large float bag in place(the one that came with the baot was a bad joke). A local boatbuilder said that he could put in a watertight bulkhead quite inepensively. We may do that for the added benefit of being able to use a bulkhead footrest setup.
Winter
Think about looking for a pool class this winter. A good class is fun and educational, and a great way to get comfortable being something other than upright. There’s also something delightfully silly about being in a pool in a boat when it’s snowing outside.
You’ve got it!
"Sounds like making sweeping generalizations about which boats are stable and which are not is not especially useful. It's more about finding a good match between an individual and a boat by looking at certain criteria- such as body weight and proportions,in conjunction with comfort level and skills."
I couldn't have said it better. You officially have more good sense than 99% of the kayak-buying public.
Proving your point, almost everyone here who thought their new boat felt "tippy" reported a remarkable increase in stability after some time on the water.
Learning to relax and let the boat move under you in waves makes a huge difference. Trying to be rigidly upright magnifies every ripple, but keeping your hips loose and letting the boat roll with the passing waves makes riding the swells fun. That's another reason to learn braces & self-rescues -- it's hard to relax if you're worried about tipping over.
find a boat that is within one’s comfort
level and therefore instills confidence but at the same time provides one with a growth challenge.
Kind of like finding a balance between the two?"
A good summary. Being in the boat should not totally unsettle you. Some say the boat should feel a bit challenging at first.
Most boats that are capable of handling an array of conditions often feel tender to those who are not accustomed to them. Among the few wholly capable boats that seems reassuring for novices is the Romany.
You are right that the boat should be capable enough of supporting skills and conditions to allow you to develop skills and persue outings while not causing you to be tense whenever in the boat.
As cooler weather sets in the Northeast, pool sessions are coming online. Talk to local outfitters. Find out about pool sessions. They are not only good for skills building, but fun!
Lessons and demoing many boats can be enjoyable pastimes;-)
Sea kayak vs. touring kayak
Thank you, Celia, for an awesome and thorough explanation of the differnces between the two types of boats.
I think I have the info I need for now, and I will look into pool sessions as you and the others have suggested before buying anything. I was planning to wait until Spring anyway. I live on a very tight budget and have to save my pennies. I will also plan on contacting Aquaterra to see what they suggest as well.
There is such a wealth of knowledge and information on this board! Many thanks to all who contributed and shared their thoughts and experiences. Great group here.
~Trish