Palm Rolls
WHile missing easy availability of chocolate crouisants, someone needs to defend the palm roll.
It maintains continuity of powerface, which includes not losing rotational or bracing force through the maneuver. Particularly important for bent paddles, where loading the backface doesn’t work well. It should be the same for spooned WW slalom blades, but the square tips and spoon catch on the Reverse Sweeping low brace.
Best way to develop a palm roll is on dry land with a tennis ball. Pick a power face; drop the ball. Chase it in a ~ 16" circle without changing blade faces while trying to ignore the top hand.
No need to defend
the palm roll. I just need to practice, and it needs to become more intuitive for me. There were times when I spent too much time thinking about the stroke and I missed the move. I’ve done the tennis ball drill before (from your book).
The spooned blade was another complication that I decided not to deal with, but you’re right - it should work fine with practice. I thought it would be harder doing the palm roll with the T-grip paddle, but that worked fine.
I’d always go for the chocolate croissants first - P-net can wait 
Forward Quadrant Conclusion
I seems we’ve pretty much worked through the forward quadrant. We can digress at any time. In fact, I suspect we will routinely digress as we make comparisons to it.
For the most part, any maneuver in the forward quadrant, has a counterpart in each of the other three. Those being the Cross or Cross Forward, the Reverse, and the Cross Reverse.
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Cross Axle
The cross axle (X Axle), like the axle is a turn toward the paddle side, with the boat heeled toward the paddle side, only this time, the paddle is crossed over to the off side of the canoe. When doing cross maneuvers, the hand positions DO NOT change. The cross over is accomplished by torso rotation, arm movement and sometimes a bit of repositioning of the knees and butt.
The videos posted below show the transition from a forward stroke, to the x axle which in this case is concluded with a cross forward stroke, before crossing back to the on side.
The initiation for the x axle is generally an uncorrected forward stroke (on the ON side) or a mild sweep on the ON side, before crossing over.
When crossing the paddle over the hull, the movement should be low (just high enough to clear the gunwales, slow and horizontal (so as to not catch wind).
The placement should be forward of the center of rotation, with the leading edge of the blade turned out slightly. The paddler then “rides” the placement and concludes by dropping the grip hand down, letting the blade extend out and doing a reverse sweep toward the bow.
http://youtu.be/tnw0Gu4ZfW0
http://youtu.be/8tMTWun2IMI
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Well
It was too windy to do it well, but it sure was great to get my paddle wet!
Turtle
My leans were wobbly
and my transitions weren’t very smooth, but I did get out yesterday to try some of these moves in my Yellowstone Solo.
On the Axles and Posts, I could usually get 90 degrees on the initial skid, and if I had good momentum, I could sometimes get 180 degrees with subsequent forward and cross forward strokes.
Palm rolls and in-water recoveries are not something that I do on a regular basis, but they do help make the initiation and follow-up strokes more effective. On the wedge, the in-water recovery gets the paddle into position for the bow pry much easier than tying to jam the paddle in place. The Wedge moved the boat the fastest, but it is also the move I am least comfortable doing.
For the onside skidding maneuvers (Axle and Post), the palm roll did help link follow-on bow draw and J-strokes to power the boat through the turn.
This freestyle stuff takes practice.
It does but if you are practicing now
imagine how good you will be when the water is warm!
I assume
– Last Updated: Dec-29-14 9:47 AM EST –
that at this point your heels are somewhat modest and that there is some boat bobble. Given those two assumptions, getting 90 deg. from the initiation and placement is quite reasonable. With practice and comfort (when the weather is warmer) the bobble should disappear, the heels will become greater and thus you'll get considerably more rotation.
The wedge is (almost) everyone's least stable maneuver. It takes time and practice to become comfortable with it. There is no reasonable brace from that position and while you're heeling the boat toward the paddle, the paddle is concurrently trying to push the boat out from beneath you. It's sort of like leaning toward the outside of a turn on a bicycle. It's important to heel the boat while keeping your body vertical.
Carve vs. Skid
– Last Updated: Dec-30-14 5:48 AM EST –
A few posts ago eckilson noted "I could usually get 90 degrees on the initial skid" and went on to talk about getting further if he had "good momentum. This comment highlights a pitfall of discussing all of this online rather than face to face: not a reason to stop discussing, but perhaps cause for us to pause.
A hundred or so posts ago I asked the following:
***** Quote *****
Can you carve a wide arc and then tighten it into a skid, with the canoe's remaining momentum carrying you back the way you came? Can you also tighten that carve and get the skid started earlier to reverse the boat but maintain momentum in your original direction? You'll get less consistent results but will develop much better "feel" for what you are doing if you consistently VARY the task."
***** Endquote *****
In passing, this highlighted a significant point about signature "Freestyle" manoeuvres: any "skid" (or "spin out") is just one part of manoeuvres like the axle, post and wedge - and it's arguably the least interesting bit!
When we initiate a turn, we're just giving the boat a hint as to what we want it to do. Without an initiation, we might find ourselves sideslipping rather than turning... or we may at least end up killing our momentum compensating for the lack of initiation - but too much initiation tends to start the trailing stem skidding too much / too early... and that wastes momentum and can result in our canoe stalling.
Our most basic 180 degree manoeuvres should aim to maintain forward momentum (with ~ laminar flow past our static placement) to well beyond the 90 degree mark. With a gentle initiation and an almost neutral placement, this is straightforward... and the key in this phase in patience - allow the boat time to draw onto a new track.
Note: in heavily laden, straighter-running craft, of the kind CEW discussed in relation to the "Christie", the carving phase of a manoeuvre may involve actively forcing the canoe to turn. By contrast, in lightly laden canoes with more rocker, such as the Twister, we may initially have more need to use our placement to inhibit the excessive "free spin" effect of our initiation.
Sooner or later, we want to release the trailing stem... and then we are likely to want to make efforts to maximise this effect. How soon, and how much, depends on what we're aiming to achieve. If our aim is to reverse our canoe whilst maintaining momentum in our original direction, we're going to have to get into the "skid" phase quite early on. We may pass fairly quickly from our initiation to a fairly aggressive placement - perhaps with maximum heel and pitch locked immediately into place.
If our aim is to redirect our canoe and go back in our original direction, we need to slow things down a little and be more subtle. Following our initiation, we might keep our boat flat, to keep the trailing stem skegged. Be patient, THEN start encouraging the skid. Use judgement in when to use heel and pitch to get the desired release of the trailing stem.
This is NOT advanced stuff. It's just developing a "feel" for moving well upon the water and to instinctively do what's needed, when it's needed, to get the results we want - something we can start working at from day one.
In passing: modern coaching theory is finally catching up with what old school paddlers have always know - that outstanding paddling (whether on the pond or in "Creeking" Freestyle) isn't about repeatable movement patterns - it's about consistency of outcomes in dynamic environments. What does that mean? At the very least, it means that if we want to turn and go back the way we came, we have the practical understanding to use almost any mix of initial momentum, initiation strength, boat heel/pitch, blade placement and conclusion to get whatever radius of turn we desire.
Of course, all of this will always make most sense in a face to face coaching situation, where we can observe one another, try things together and discuss specifics as they arise - but I trust that's encouragement to get out and experiment :)
Red Alert! What is a compound shift?
“Compound shift”
I’ve never before heard this term, not even from the most famous canoe neologists: Bill Mason, Tom Foster, Glaros & Wilson.
At 4:15 of this odd but recent Norwegian video, Mark Molina says of his wife Becky: “Compound shift . . . there are only about five paddlers that can do that.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BMKt4Mhmok
Mark is the former two-time U.S. Interpretive Freestyle Champion cum Greenland kayak expert, so he must know what he’s talking about.
Yet I’ve never heard of the move and can’t really tell what Becky is doing. Are any of the other four paddlers who can do a compound shift in this thread, and if so, can you explain what it is?
I went back and read
– Last Updated: Dec-30-14 5:45 AM EST –
your original post (about 100 back) and agree with your points on using freestyle to become a more well-rounded paddler. Well said – to me, that’s what this is all about. Here’s the link so people don’t have to search back to find it
Short URL
http://alturl.com/reiie
Full URL (copy this because the link will break)
http://www.paddling.net/message/showThread.html?fid=advice&tid=1756729#1757471
I’m also glad you brought up carving because that really hasn’t been talked about in the context of freestyle paddling. Carving is an important skill in whitewater paddling, and shorter rockered whitewater boats definitely carve more easily than the longer flatwater boats. Still, carving can help maintain momentum and finish the turn.
Here’s an example from my paddling on Sunday – looks like a post (boat healed away from the turn - slightly) and I do finish with some wobbly carving strokes.
http://vimeo.com/115627048
Not the best technique, but the boat does come around 180 degrees and maintains momentum through the turn. To your point on initiation, the stern is starting to skid a couple of strokes before I plant the paddle for the post. That paddle placement is not nice and vertical like you would typically see in a freestyle routine, but hopefully it is a “passable crack” at a post.
I’d like to get some personal coaching at one of the freestyle symposiums sometime, but this thread is a good substitute for now. As I said before great discussion and good opportunity to get out and try some new moves.
There are probably more
than five people who can do it because I am one and I am certainly not the best in the business.
What Mark is describing is sideslipping in one direction and then changing to side slipping in the other direction all in one maneuver. Obviously the major challenge is maintaining forward momentum. If you have the mechanics down there isn’t a lot of instruction needed here, just lots of practice. Start slipping one direction and then change your paddle placement to slip the opposite direction. I personally would call this a very advanced maneuver as placements must be perfect and you must have a complete understanding of your particular boat and it’s movements.
In my experience many students have problem maintaining forward momentum because they are not moving forward under control with enough speed at the beginning of their maneuvers. It really matters in this one.
continuity of powerface?
Charlie,
Are you saying that the palm roll should be used to keep one side of the blade as powerface?
WHOA!
I commonly use a palm roll to ease the awkward wrist on my J stroke. That results in alternating the powerface one side of the blade to the other. I did find my curved blade backwards as often as not. That was more embarrassing than it was having any noticable effect on performance. So when I broke my last curved blade I replaced it with a straight.
So I’ll ask, with a straight shaft straight blade paddle, is there a reason that I should avoid alternating my powerface?
I call it a compound sideslip
Like Steve said, this is a about momentum and knowing your boat. Momentum doesn’t mean speed - it means having your boat moving efficiently without scrubbing your momentum. And knowing where to place your paddle without searching (which also sheds progression).
On lightly moving water, you have the current to help maintain that momentum. In real world paddling, you can almost always add a forward paddle stroke between side slips. So, while it is a cool maneuver and is worth practicing after you get your different sideslips down, there isn’t a lot of call for it in everyday paddling.
Now, let’s get back to that cross axle.
To Tim’s point
– Last Updated: Dec-30-14 9:18 AM EST –
It's hard to tell from the video of Becky, because I don't think they show the entire maneuver, but I tend to agree that Mark is likely referring to a compound side slip.
Tim mentions a more likely, functional scenario of slipping to one side, taking a stroke or two and then slipping the other way. This is a clip (by our ace videographer, Paul Meyer) which I used earlier, when introducing the side slip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTh_B8NkuhA&feature=youtu.be
Now, as Tim suggested, let's get back to the cross axle.
Practicing with Freestyle Moves
In my experience, competent river canoeists generally take “Freestyle” in their stride… but a few considerations…
Firstly, river canoeists are generally used to going into moves with significant momentum, and to dealing with a particularly dynamic environment in which the forces on the boat can be quite substantial - but that does tend to inhibit the development of “feel” and can lead to impatience / not leaving time for the boat do the work.
I’m all in favour of canoeists mastering manoeuvres at pace… not least because that does introduce new dynamics, including increased carving effects which can help with inside circle technique - but it’s also good to take a time-out from this approach, as using limited momentum also has advantages.
Key thing: if you try and Freestyle manoeuvre off 1-2 strokes and are in ANY way inefficient… you’ll get immediate feedback from the water - unmissable, as you’ll stall!
Next thing: most of us can benefit at some juncture from ensuring our boat is genuinely running straight prior to initiating any manoeuvre. Ideally, we first reduce yaw by improving our forward / reverse paddling… but even a novice can get a canoe running straight prior to initiating a manoeuvre simply by trailing the paddle as a “rudder” for a moment or two!
Thirdly… every boat’s different, and hydrodynamics change with speed, loading and weight shifts. Our starting point in any move is knowing what our boat will do by itself if we simply stop paddling: how it will slow, and how dynamically it will “free spin” - as that’s what we’re looking to modify with anything else we do. Experimenting is an exercise in patience… but can be instructive.
Practical next step: following forward strokes… rudder until the boat’s going dead straight… then try the gentlest of initiations… and watch what happens. If the trailing stem rapidly overtakes the leading stem… try reducing the initiation… or leaning back a little to skeg the stern. In a highly rockered boat… try using the blade as a skeg - see how long you can maintain usable forward momentum, bearing in mind that with an optimised boat, we don’t need much to get useful work from the boat!
Aim: to get to our Axle / Post “placement” with a neutral slice… with laminar flow either side of the blade. Most common failing: not noticing that whilst the boat’s turned through 90 degrees… any remaining momentum remains in pretty much the original direction… such that a placement parallel to the keel line is almost perpendicular to the direction of travel.
Note: we are not aiming to lock the blade in the water and swing around the paddle shaft as if it were a fencepost - we’re looking to optimise the hydrodynamics of our always-carving canoe with an almost neutral blade placement that maximises the potential of our forward / reverse (rather than sideways) momentum. Be subtle to let the boat (modified by our weight shifts and blade placement) do the real work of getting us where we want to be!
The Vimeo clip shows a classic river canoeist’s approach to Freestyle. Going through the above steps can introduce new levels of refinement. Playing with weight shifts can take things further still. We can THEN stick the speed back in, initiate from an inside circle and see what happens, including in current, wind/waves and so on.
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Again jargon gets in the way
Its what I call something else… usually a z sideslip though it really does not form a z.
It requires momentum and going straight before the first paddle placement, then timing it so you have not lost too much speed before slicing forward for the second accurate placement.
Its kind of fun to practice and once you find the two sweet spots not that hard. Many people can do it, but it does require some patience to get.
Surely…
…any competent canoeist can manage a compound sideslip!
It’s not rocket science:
- Initiate…
- Be subtle with opening the face on your placement to go one way…
- Go to a neutral placement until the sideways drift has slowed…
- Initiate to go the other way…
- Use some/all of remaining momentum to emphasis drift in the new direction…
I’d expect most of my students to manage that within a few minutes of a first attempt: it really isn’t that hard!
Slow down…
Not sure that I can do that, but I’ll try next time I am out. Thanks for the tips.
Cross Axle videos
Below are cross axle videos, taken from both bow mounted and stern mounted GoPro cameras. They are all from a three point (functional) paddler’s position.
http://youtu.be/YF7Kv5uxUj8
http://youtu.be/Ve91t3D2aJY
http://youtu.be/taybyU72xms
http://youtu.be/TQbuLF6Ph_I
For more information about freestyle canoeing and the various events go to www.freestylecanoeing.com