Because it is a more snappy turn
at low speeds it can be employed to make a 90 degree turn around a rock. Also it requires less room to plan for said turn though not less swing the hull room.
There is a relation to speed of canoe( and paddler), heel of boat and static stroke selected. I love posts at almost a standstill because they have enough turning oomph. They do work pretty well without a lot of paddle submergence… as in the approach to a portage.
Its rare in tripping that I want to go back to whence I came, especially more than once.
A post will also turn…
a canoe on a lightly blown lake surface. A useful maneuver when fishing along vertical walls and working around obstacles as you drift with the breeze driven current. I often use it going backwards as I work the shaded spots along the canyon walls. Minimal water disturbance from either boat or paddle is also a plus when fishing.
Didn’t even know what a post was until I started watching FS videos a few years ago.
Nice!
I am having a little trouble envisioning what you describe… it must be a reverse post…
How do you feel about that funky offside heel?
Post transitions nicely into a . . .
. . . drawing sideslip. The hull is heeled up the proper way, in the direction of the slip. The post can take you around a sharp corner and the sideslip can keep you close to the shore to avoid something on the other side.
Similarly a cross-post can transition into a cross-drawing sideslip.
Glenn makes a great point
when he mentions transitioning into a drawing side slip. Quite often, a maneuver may be chosen (from several that will accomplish the goal) based on what you plan to do next. We refer to this as linkages. In the controlled laboratory of a still pond, we can always think through a linkage or two ahead. On a stream, you sometime have to wing it as conditions change.
Post closeups views
– Last Updated: Nov-21-14 4:34 PM EST –
The attached clips of posts are from cameras mounted on booms, a short distance off the bow/stern. These Go Pro clips as well as others that I'll use in this thread, were taken for a different project but they do illustrate the maneuvers reasonably well. All of these are 2 point posts, where the paddler comes up on his/her knees to pitch the boat, bow down. In functional situations, such as on streams or in waves, one most likely would remain seated (3 point) for more stability. Unfortunately, I don't have any closeup videos of three point posts.
The 1st two clips are from a bow mounted camera.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhqfsfsROVo&list=UUXYYl0iJ_q9ggpjR_HwaDjA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uEAEYhvFxM&index=4&list=UUXYYl0iJ_q9ggpjR_HwaDjA
These second two clips are from a stern mounted camera.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPNSbmdMT8g&list=UUXYYl0iJ_q9ggpjR_HwaDjA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7TF3QrIvsM&index=3&list=UUXYYl0iJ_q9ggpjR_HwaDjA
paddle under the boat?
In some of those last videos, it looks like the paddle blade actually goes under the bottom of the canoe near the end of the stroke. Am I seeing it right or is it just the camera angle.
wow!
Great video, I just want to learn the proper j stroke first. I can’t kneel down because of knee replacement and have to sit. Please tell me that I will be able to learn a proper j stroke and make my day a good one. All I do is paddle a tandem with family and friends and sit in the stern and paddle and turn. I have paddled the Mullica 3-4 times and the Batso last year. Learned about strainers when my poly 17ft Tempest became one and then I went out and bought a Pungo 120! And from what I saw on you tube it can navigate South Africa according to that cartoon video. Thanks for helping a rookie.
Sure you can
Learn a proper J stroke. We won’t try to reform your knee though some who have come through the program can kneel with a replacement knee. The secret is padding on the bottom of the boat.
What you don’t want to do sitting is heel much because you have little to help you regain your balance if you go too far…
Btw all this starts with a flat boat. First comes making sure the basic active strokes are down…forward with good power (biomechanics), draws, cross draws, pries, stern rudder, stern pry, J stroke hit and switch–ie your tools for basic maneuveing. Then come the static strokes that convert momentum going forward to arcs for turns…the stuff that seems like no work.
Then later…comes the heel and the pitch…
One gal very pointedly said she wanted a performance solo boat, wanted to do FreeStyle and would never kneel. What she did was get a DragonFly which is a tender deep river boat…( she is tall) put a seat in it fairly low and carried on. She heels the boat pretty far over now!
Sometimes it does look like the paddle is under the boat. Sometimes the aim is to keep the paddle very close to the boat. It makes it less likely snags will make off with your paddle too.
one can certainly
learn a J stroke while seated in a solo canoe. I’m a bit confused by the fact that you reference 2 different kayaks, which make the J stroke moot but assuming you want to paddle a solo canoe, there are untold numbers of paddlers who do the J stroke sitting. It might help to have a bent shaft paddle in the particular situation. A lesson or two from a known experienced instructor couldn’t hurt. Have fun.
Pag
Pag… Coldfoot has the disease too
He only mentioned two of his fleet. And I can attest that no matter what the craft, canoe or kayak, single blading on Pine Barrens rivers beats disentangling doubles from the brush on those narrow waterways.
Disease eeek!
Oh boy do I have it! Problem is that the boats I have aren’t really the beginner solo short canoe that I need to learn on. You should have seen me zig zag on a quiet stream recently. If I had a GPS it would have quit on me. But I’m still going to try and figure it out. Might not ever do it but at least I’m out there with you all. I think I’m one of those guys who shows up to the party with cool toys and doesn’t know 90% of how it works. But I’m willing to learn, always wear my PFD and am ready to swim! I do hope to attend that meeting next year in Jersey. Man being from Queens NY I never knew how nice Jersey was. And I agree, getting that long 220 ck kayak paddle stuck in the brush was the pits. I took the paddle apart and used it as a canoe paddle. Camped along the Mullica in their designated spot and car camped near the Batso. So nice. Be well, thanks. ps, just bought a 1986 RX Old Town Camper to learn in also. Need a bigger garage! Wonder if my health insurance will cover this “disease?”
solo canoe size?
opinions wanted. What size would be to large or small for a solo canoe? I thought a 14ft would be just right. Saw a 16ft solo but I think it’s way to big for a beginner. Thoughts please, thank you.
Fit to your stature
Long armed long torsoed people need a wider boat.
Less powerful people need a boat with less “skin” as skin friction is a factor. This usually translates to shorter boat. Shorter boats accelerate faster which adds to the fun on creeks.
Its hard to find a sixteen foot solo with much rocker. Usually with that length comes narrowness and speed and a hull shape that is not forgiving when its time to heel the hull. 14 foot works for FreeStyle to learn with. Tim Burriss is a tall guy and 14 is fine. Some folk who are tall go with the Colden StarFire (or Bell or Placid). 15 feet. Rocker on bow and stern.
When you get into extended trips sometimes the determining factor is load and duration of trip and size of water. Its rather folly to take a 14 foot boat 26 inches wide on Lake Superior laden for a month.
Ye in NYC have the additional challenge of storage in which case you might start thinking of adding a folding boat like a PakBoat… either kayak or canoe
http://pakboats.com/
So now…we have added to your need list and your probability of ejection from the house.
- 14 foot boat for Freestyle and light tripping on NJ waters and CT and NY lakes and ponds.
- 16 foot solo for Algonquin tripping. Your Monarch is a neat boat but you need one you can portage easily. The Monarch is unbalanced. The seat is not quite in the right place.
- A folder for when you are evicted from home and live under the GWB cause your wife says…OUT!
Lets let her simmer down from your recent boat shopping sprees. Don’t worry about finding a boat. Rentals are always available at Wisconsin or NJ or Adirondack Canoe Symposium. Let your wife calm down and be in peace for a while.
Amen!
Now where do I send my insurance copayment to?
I was wondering about the Monarch. It’s more of a tripping boat with no portages. But I still want to learn on a small boat. Thanks, don’t want to get evicted. Just wish I got into this hobby years ago and built of the confidence. Will take some classes in a pool this winter hopefully. Thanks for input. Happy holidays to all!
one more thing
I did mention that I picked up a Placid RF a few years ago. Had the highest seat placed in there for ease getting out after knee replacement. Need to try more canoe paddles with that. I just got a really long paddle with a slight bend in it.
your problem is not the boat
but the matching paddle wardrobe.
Short shafted bent. And yes you can learn to j with a bent.
But if that would feel awkward to you because of the unidirectional grip, go to Campmor in NJ and buy a kids canoe paddle.
The good news is the paddle wardrobe takes up much less room
Another Post comment
I’ve been away in one of those places where I don’t do computers or cell phones. I just wanted to add something about posts vs. axles. On the tight streams I found the post turned me too quickly an my stern would catch in the current, or I would head into the bank. I was like Goldilocks and the axle (and cross axle)was “just right” for me in those situations.
Interestingly, we paddled down and back up on the Mullica. Going upstream, I found the Post was ideal for making the turn quickly and going back to forward strokes. On turns where I had used the axle going down, the post was the perfect maneuver for me going upstream.
Quiver
In water recoveries are cool but…
They slow our cadence, slowing the boats rate of progress.
They create drag with the paddleblade. Consider the additional surface area of skin in the water, averaging, maybe 2 square feet.
While allowing subtle direction inputs to the watercraft they also may provide undesired miss direction.
Yeah, another arrow in the quiver, but one we shouldn’t select often.
Back to basics: Axle
– Last Updated: Nov-24-14 11:45 AM EST –
As many of you know, this thread began on another forum. It was moved to Pnet, early on. Apparently I neglected to reconstruct some of the early postings and comments. One that has been brought to my attention regards the Axle which was discussed early on.
The basic axle (and most other maneuvers) is done from a 3 point stance; the 3 points being both knees in opposite chines (2 points) and butt on the seat or thwart (3rd point). Some of the video clips posted earlier in this thread are of 2 point axles, where the paddler's butt is off the seat and also show both knees together, in the on side chine. Theses are more advanced maneuvers. Neither is appropriate to learn before the basic (3 point) maneuver is reasonably mastered.
Below are two clips of a 3 point axle, from the viewpoint of a camera that is mounted off the stern of the canoe. The 1st clip is in normal time, the 2nd at 1/4 speed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0JYLhvatB0&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWwWMhI-T-Q&feature=youtu.be