Giardia

Giardia in seawater is possible

– Last Updated: Feb-06-06 4:36 PM EST –

Swimming near the mouth of a freshwater stream, or a sewage outfall into seawater. Most likely this would occur in a thirdworld country, not US though.

10 cysts for an infectious load.

Sudden, Unexpected, Explosive Diarrhea
is the result of Giardiasis. I know it’s out of range of the discussion, but I love saying Sudden Unexpected Explosive Diarrhea. It’s just funny, in a sick kinda way.



Funny story. When I was going to college, a kid in my Calculus III class had been on a nordic skiing trip where he ran out of water. He drank from a “spring” and contracted a few giardia cysts in the old gullet.



Anyway one day, sitting in Calc class, we hear a “squishing sound” and smell the most gut wrenching, foul, poopie smell. Poor guy had pooped himself. And it was definitly explosive. His knick-name for the rest of the year was “Skidmark”



A little juvenile humour and one of my favorite college stories.



Paddle On!



LK

EXACTLY 10…are you sure?

– Last Updated: Feb-07-06 4:08 PM EST –

What constitutes a sufficient load to cause infection will vary from person to person and probably due to other circumstances as well. You can't quantify it to that degree, nor is there any point in doing so.

Why are you trying so hard to exaggerate this issue? It's not a major problem, because it's easy to prevent.

Do you freak out over every malady that you may encounter?

Then it’s not salt water, is it?
Freshwater outflow is still freshwater. The giardia cyst cannot live in salt water.

If giardia is bad, how about cholera?
From “Medicine for Mountaineering” (ancient copy, apparently pre-giardia):



The onset at the end of the incubation period is explosive. The patient has voluminous diarrhea, copious vomiting…



Frequently, no warning of the need to defecate is felt, resulting in repeated, almost uncontrollable bowel movements. Similarly, vomiting may occur without antecedent nausea…



Intravenous therapy is usually necessary.




All they need to add in that description is “projectile vomiting.” UGH.

I caught Giardia from a girl at school
It hurt when I peed for a while, but the doctor gave me a shot, and I’m ok now.


That’s GINGIVITIS
Duhhhh

I always urge caution
Still, I’ve never known anyone to actually get giardia or crypto or anything from drinking the water. Purify, filter, boil, prisine, of course and always. I don’t think it’s worth worrying about.



If you’re going to get it from one drop on your mouthpiece, what about all the drops on your face, up your nose, dripping from your hair?



I’m pretty sure most of these narsty bugs are more likely to be found in still, shitty water than in clear oxegenated water.



Companies with something to sell will have you worried about everything from door knobs to dihydrogenmonoxide.

For practical purposes, a person is
going to consider the place where he/she contracted/might contract the giardia. If you are paddling along an ocean beach and get giardia because a sewage outfall or heavily contaminated river is dumping into the water along the beach, you are going to consider yourself having contracted giardia while you were in seawater. When people on this board are asking “can I get giardia from saltwater,” they are not asking “does giardia live in the ocean normally”, they are asking “is it possible for me to get giardia when I am (swimming, snorkeling, kayaking) at the beach.” While you are technically correct, telling people no might mislead them into thinking it is not possible to get giardia from a day at the seaside, when, in fact, it is.

Dude, calm the hell down.

– Last Updated: Feb-08-06 10:58 AM EST –

It was a statement of fact that I looked up, and actually it was to counter tinkerbell's assertion that ONE cyst could cause infection, I was showing that it actually required MORE:

http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic868.htm

bnystrom said:
"Why are you trying so hard to exaggerate this issue? It's not a major problem, because it's easy to prevent.

Do you freak out over every malady that you may encounter?"

How do you figure I am exaggerating the issue and freaking out, when I give a statement of fact that the infectious load is considered to be possibly as low as 10 cysts, and I point out that it may be possible to contract it from seawater at a contaminated beach? Why wouldn't you want someone who is asking about it to know facts and possibilities?

I had giardia, I contracted it in Puerto Rico, positive stool test. I had been very careful with food and drinking water, and the infectious disease specialist I saw said that it was most likely from snorkeling, that (at least at that time) Puerto Rican wastewater treatment was shoddy, and sewage often found its way directly into the ocean, often at popular beaches, and he had seen many people come back from Puerto Rico infected this way.

The infection wasn't bad - just intermittent diarrhea until I started taking Flagyl, then the side effects of Flagyl would get me here and there, and were actually more uncomfortable than the giardia, but it still wasn't what I would call debilitating.

You know, people have said things to me before on this site, things that I thought were uncalled for, and sure I would call them on it, but for the most part I could see how I had also contributed to the hostile nature, and never expected an apology, and at times admitted I had gotten out of line. Here, I did nothing to do that. Someone asked about giardia, could one get it from being in the ocean, and you and others were speculating about its infectious load, I replied with the statement that infectious load could be as low as 10 cysts, based on my looking that information up, and I gave a possible infection source for getting it in seawater, but softened that by saying this would not happen in the US. You accused me of exaggerating the issue and freaking out - your response was totally out of line and you owe me an apology.

It’s about time…
…that you corrected some of the misinformation you posted previously.



You left a lot of important details out of your initial posts. For example, the three words “as low as” mean a great deal, but you ommitted them. That’s why I called you on it. In reality, the likelihood of infection from such a low load is very low and would probably require that the “victim” have a compromized immune system.



You say that you contracted giardiasis in PR, but you didn’t mention that until just now. You make it sound as if anyone who spends any time in freshwater in the US is bound to contract giardiasis, but that is absolutely untrue. I spend a lot of time in the outdoors, as do most of my friends and I don’t even know anyone who has contracted giardiasis. It’s simply not a significant problem in most areas of the US, as long as one takes the precaution of properly treating drinking water.



I seriously doubt that I’m the only person here who thinks you’re grossly exaggerating the risks of contracting giardiasis in the US.



If anyone owes anyone an apology, YOU owe the others here an apology for posting inaccurate, alarmist information on the forum. To your credit, at least you’ve finally corrected yourself.

I’m still waiting

– Last Updated: Feb-08-06 12:43 PM EST –

"You left a lot of important details out of your initial posts. For example, the three words "as low as" mean a great deal, but you ommitted them. That's why I called you on it. In reality, the likelihood of infection from such a low load is very low and would probably require that the "victim" have a compromized immune system. "

My "10 cysts for infection" was in response to tinkerbell's assertion that ONE cyst caused infection, I was countering the argument that ONE cyst could cause infection with facts that it took MORE THAN ONE cyst to cause infection.

"You say that you contracted giardiasis in PR, but you didn't mention that until just now. "

Wrong, idiot:

"If you can catch cholera from saltwater
Posted by: Reefmonkey on Feb-03-06 3:59 PM (EST)
I'm guessing you can catch giardia.

I caught giardia down in Puerto Rico one year. Had to take Flagyl to get rid of it. The cure was worse than the disease. "

See that date? February 3rd?

By "cure was worse than the disease," I meant giardia didn't hit me that hard, but the flagyl really upset my GI tract. All I am guilty of here is not elaborating on that.



"You make it sound as if anyone who spends any time in freshwater in the US is bound to contract giardiasis, but that is absolutely untrue."

Show me where I said anything REMOTELY to that effect. Actually, I did not say ANYTHING AT ALL about getting giardia in freshwater. I only spoke to the possibility of getting it in saltwater, AND I said that WOULDN'T happen in the US. So the ONLY thing I said about the risk of catching Giardia in the US is that it WOULDN'T happen in the US via seawater. Try to squirm out of that one by accusing me of something else, jerk.

So what really has happened is you jumped to foolish conclusions and tried to pump up your ego by putting me down, and then when I pointed out you were doing so, you tried to fabricate arguments I never made to attack. Pathetic.

"To your credit, at least you've finally corrected yourself."

To your discredit, when I pointed out that your responses to me were rude and out of line, you got defensive and attacked me again instead of manning up and admitting you were being a jerk.

Let's see if you discredit yourself further by not admitting your subsequent accusations against me were entirely groundless.

Am I a giardia alarmist?
Bnystrom seems to think so. Read my posts and our exchange and decide for yourself.

No
You are not an alarmist. Watching a fellow unleash his bowels in from of 26 people has made me a firm believer in filtering water. This was caught in Wyoming in a fairly remote location in the Snowies.



Last summer I caught a GI infection from unproperly treated water at my brothers wedding in the mountain. 3 days of poopin and puking have further reinforced my theory regarding treating every water source as contaminated.



Paddle On



LK

Thank you
Funny, I have traveled around the world - Europe, Turkey, East Asia, Africa, Caribbean, Central America, and the only time I have ever gotten sick while travelling was ironically in the US Territory of Puerto Rico, even though I used all the same precautions I always use - drink and brush teeth with only bottled water, don’t eat salad or other raw greens, avoid ice in drinks and juices made from concentrates.

Always be suspicious
I had a month of intermittent cramps and diarrhea that seems to have come from contaminated ice cubes. I was at an outdoor event (in the U.S.) where they provided bottled drinks nestled in a tub of ice.



Now I wipe off the cap and neck very hard before drinking from such bottles.



Also, remember that anything, not just food, can be contaminated by various pathogens. Money is frequently named as a source of illness. If I am about to eat anything by hand, I try to either wash hands or at least wipe well with a baby wipe first. I’ve taken to wiping my hands off after pumping gas. This helps gets rid of both gasoline stink and “bugs.”



In my 20s I wasn’t as careful about the above, but honestly, I think people are carrying around more resistant pathogens now and they are less likely to wash their hands after pooping. Also, women’s bathrooms usually have diaper changing trays. Let’s say a mother changes a diaper and doesn’t do a good job cleaning her hands afterward, then pulls that bathroom door handle…

Don’t hold your breath.
Your juvenile name calling certainly isn’t going to garner you an apology from me.

well

– Last Updated: Feb-09-06 9:49 AM EST –

You know the new MIL-SPEC Camel-Backs have nifty Bite valve covers.. keeps the nasty bugs off your tube!! but what happens if the water from your paddle splashes into your face??? better put on a HAZ-MAT face shield...

I wish I had not called you an idiot,
and I am sorry for that. Calling you out as a jerk was unnecessary. I should have maintained my composure better. A good night’s sleep has calmed me down, and I am hoping one has made you more objective about what I really wrote before this misunderstanding got started.