would gloves be needed for recreational and fishing kayaking?
any good brands out there?
I use cheap work gloves that I bought at Home Depot, 3 for $10! And they work great and one pair matches my kayak too.
My paddle is wood coated in tung oil. I don’t actually need gloves, but find that they do keep the chafing and callouses/blisters from forming too often. You can’t beat the grip they add, even when wet. As the weather gets cooler, I may actually have to deal with cold hands and then my choice might be more traditional neoprene or other paddling gloves.
But if you aren’t bothered by blistering/chafing and your hands are not cold, and you can grip your paddle well when it’s wet, then gloves seem to me to be wasted.
Redhead Gortex Mammoth glove …
....... been using Redhead gloves from Bass Pro for some years now but they weren't waterproof ... but a couple years ago Redhead got together with Gortex and now put out a waterproof line of gloves , just fantastic .
Yes , they are 100% truely waterproof , and warm . "Mammoth" was the model I chose ... $ 50 bucks and worth every penny . They had one model (?) for $ 40. and another for $ 60. , but the Mammoth felt best to me .
It's a cuffed glove and slips off and on with ease so you you can pop them off for a minute to do any fine work and slip them right back on , which is what I think a decent glove should do , no hassle off and on .
Even though the glove has 40 gram Thinsulate insulation (best insulation IMHO), it's still very flexable and dexterity is plenty good .
Check them out , they work !!!
ps., ... I'm a fisherman and these gloves are great stuff in the worst of winter weather on the water .
Just remembered , I got her a pair for Xmas last year ... she loves them , she chose the $40. pair because she felt they were less bulky , had more dexterity , they do but not quite as much insulation .
Depending on weather
I’ve paddled 40 to 50 miles in a day - no gloves.
In the wintertime I use pogies.
Blisters occur from dampness and friction.
Once gloves get wet, you “may” still develop blisters.
No Gloves, Pogies for cold weather.
Gloves don’t work well for kayaking unless you’re protecting a blister. For cold weather I have always used Pogies. The best pogies I’ve ever owned were unlined nylon. They work almost always unless it’s really cold out. (below 32 degrees) Than I use neoprene pogies. Black Mambas.
but what if you find yourself in water?
need neoprene on hands to function
But when you get out…
of the water, wet neoprene is friggin’ cold. Always carry dry stuff in a dry stuff sack if the weather is cold.
those Refhead gloves I mentioned …
...... if your hand gets submerged , water will get into the inner glove ... unless you do something special around the wrist cuff to keep water out .
But the good news is , if you're in the water and the inner glove becomes wet ... just don't take it off until you are out of the water , they will "still" keep your hands very well insulated and warm when the inner gloves gets wet ... this is fact proven in 20 F. windy Wx by me on accident . Once the glove gets soaked inside and you take it off , that's it until you turn it inside out and let it dry completely again at home .
ALWAYS have a back up pair of dry gloves of some type when out on the water in cold weather .
My neoprene Glazier gloves are one of my backups . The neoprene are suppose to be wet on the inside ... it is the way that thin layer of wetness is warmed by your body heat that makes the neoprene so effective . They just are a pain to take off and put on again once that thin wet layer has established . And you can forget about doing anything with small stuff (tying a line , fish hook work , etc.) when wearing the neoprene , although you can cast fairly effectively with a little practice wearing them .
wetness a side effect?
Isn’t the thin layer of wetness just a side effect of the nature of the stuff vs. having anything to do with insulating properties? I’ve always thought it provides all the insulation without the wetness. I guess my feeling has been that the thin insulating water layer thing is simply the easiest way to explain to folks, yes, you will get wet underneath, but yes, it will still provide insulation.
Put on cold dry neoprene, the insulation kicks right in, and your body heat is held in, and I feel it quickly. Put on cold wet neoprene, and your body is cooled a bit warming the moisture, but once again the neoprene holds in the body heat, including that transferred to that moisture, and allows things to warm up. I suppose my thoughts are more the idea of it will retain your body heat even though there is a thin layer of moisture, not because there is. And the tight fit doesn’t allow new cold water to circulate and absorb that heat. That’s why any looseness anywhere in a wetsuit that allows additional moisture to accumulate between the insulating layer and the skin is negative. You’re definitely trying to minimize any layer of moisture - again pointing to it simply being a side effect. That’s why I never layer underneath. A tight rashguard top and speedos for underwear. Anything additional necessary goes on top. In this way even a thin farmer john can provide significant protection on a cold day where I really don’t expect to go in, but don’t want to go into cold shock or become hypothermic in 15 minutes. It will give me significant additional workable time. I never stay dry in a wetsuit whether I come in contact with the water or not as it doesn’t allow sweat to escape.
I know folks explain a thin layer of moisture as insulating when talking about wetsuits. I use wetsuits regularly, I know they provide good insulation in a wet environment, and I’ve never figured any reason to believe the moisture is anything but a side effect. Has anyone ever heard a sensible explanation? Maybe I’m wrong?
The dryer a neoprene garment is, the warmer it is. The thin layer of water between you and most neoprene garments is not an advantage, and it doesn’t keep you warm. Neoprene itself is the insulator, and the garment must be designed and sized to minimize the amount of water between you and the neoprene. As long as the thin layer of water is not allowed to constantly flush in and out of the suit, it’s not going to get in the way of the wetsuit’s insulating properties - but that water is definitely not what is keeping you warm.
see this said many times
Many incorrectly say wetsuits keep you warm because of the trapped water. They keep you warm despite the water if there’s only a small bit that doesn’t get refreshed much. If you could magically keep it bone dry it would be warmer.
Wet neoprene plus wind can be quite cold so having some wind protection over neoprene can help in those cases.
it’s not like I believe the neoprene
...... isn't doing the insulation thing , give me a little more credit than that will ya .
Technically it's "foamed" neoprene that has the insulation values , not the neoprene itself . Foamed meaning the gazzilion traped nitrogen bubbles built into the neoprene during the special manufacturing process that's doing the insulation thing . It's those trapped nitrogen bubbles that give the foamed neoprene it's extra bouyancy too . Divers know those trapped bubbles get compressed at depths , the deeper the more compressd ... the more compressed the less the insulating value ... also that extra bouyancy is cause for counter-weight belts on divers . Swimmers are aware of the extra bouyancy effects of a foamed neoprene wetsuit too .
Anyway , when I said it's that thin layer of wetness (moisture) that makes the neoprene so effective , that's what I think , not because I heard someone else say it . I gave it thought before and again this time because you all are in disagreement ... and that's Ok , even if I'm incorrect . And I can agree that wetness is a side effect , but then again i believe impossible for it not to happen also .
My reasoming ... when I put the glove on it's dry inside and fairly warm insulating wise , but the longer the glove is on the more moisture builds up inside (sweat , body moisture ??) , and the hotter it gets inside the glove ... it's noticably hotter in the glove after the moisture builds up than when the glove is dry inside . That comparison alone is what gave me my thoughts on the matter .
Aparently there are many others who think or beleive similar to me about that thin moisture layer ... you all say they believe incorrectly , maybe true , but I wonder why , what causes them to think that way ... hopefully it's not just because they heard it somewhere .
Not sure if there's any science that could offer support to what my own skin temp. tells me ... maybe because water on the skin draws body heat out some 25 times faster and that heat builds inside the glove cause there's more heat building than can edcape through the glove , or maybe that's not the case , really don't know . What I do know is if air is in the glove (like when you pluck the palm area away from skin) imediately you can feel the skin temp. drop where the air is .
Another thought is that the more moisture that is "in" the air the hotter/warmer it feels to your skin ... comparison between same air temp. with high moisture content as oppossed to dry air . It's the moiture in the air that holds the "latent" heat not the air .
So I'm not convinced that thin moisture layer isn't doing something very helpful ... I'll agree you can read on the net. just about everywhere what you all have said , but my own thoughts and experience tell me otherwise .
I'm not arguing with you all , just explaining why I think what I think .
when you put on the glove dry then start to sweat it does get warmer but no because of the moisture of the sweat. Instead the neoprene is simply doing a good job containing your body heat allowing that body heat to build rather than conduct away in the air. But of course sweat comes along for the ride because that’s what we do when we get warm. If magically that sweat just went away it would still be just as warm or warmer from your body heat being contained. The moisture from the outside eventually gets near to your skin temp so it doesn’t do much harm but it never actually helps.
I like these gloves…
I got the Sub Gear G flex extreme gloves and they seem pretty good. We’ll know how good they are by this spring.
I put a picture of them here: http://paddlingandsailing.blogspot.com/2011/12/tired-of-cold-hands.html
There was a vapor barrier theory
regarding warmth. I don’t know what “scientist” developed it, but the Stephenson tent and garment company believed so strongly in it that they recommended that people wear a plastic vapor barrier inside their sleeping bags. (A thin fabric inner liner helped avoid the plastic feeling.)
The argument, as I recall, was that the skin “expects” a certain level of moisture next to it. In a dry environment, the skin will keep pushing moisture outward, and that takes energy. A vapor barrier allows humidity to rise next to the skin so that no energy is expended pushing moisture outward.
Stephenson claimed that with an inner vapor barrier, a sleeping bag was more effective. Plus, the bag’s insulating property was not reduced by body moisture condensing in the insulation. The sleeper did not become as dehydrated during a long night in the tent. The sleeping bag need not be dried out as long the next morning.
I think that vapor barrier insulation is important only for hikers sleeping in drier environments. But it’s a thing worth considering regarding gloves. Paddling gloves, especially neoprene gloves, have a vapor barrier built in. So the only point in my bringing this up may be in making you aware that a vapor barrier issue might exist. google yourself.
What make and model?
I can’t find the key identifiers anywhere on your site!
Exactly right, Jbikeski
The moisture inside of a neoprene garment conducts heat away from your body faster than air would. There is ZERO benefit to having moisture inside your neoprene.
yeah I get that , but …
...... what happens to the heat or energy store/potential of that heat (latent) that is conducted from the body faster because of the moisture ?? Something has to happen to that excess heat energy doesn't it ?? I tend believe it does anyway , I don't think that latent heat (energy) just stays in limbo inside the glove .
It's like a ratio of heat the body expells to heat transfered through the foamed neoprene glove . The more heat the body expells , as would be the case with the moisture present ... the more excess would remain in the glove because the transfer rate through the glove shouldn't change regardless , the glove has an R value that should be constant at a given temp. outside the glove .
My thought was if that heat energy (latent) is building or storing that much quicker at the 25 X's rate and can not 'disapate' into an open enviroment such as would be in open water , but instead is trapped inside the glove , and the glove has a certain R value ... the excess heat energy (latent) that can not transfer through the glove (g2d's vapor barrier) as quick as it is building inside the glove ... might be getting evaporated and releasing that heat (latent energy) to a valuable degree inside the glove for warmth .
I've read that water/moisture conducts heat from the body something like 25 X's faster than air ... I'm not sure if that percentage is temp. dependant , maybe the warmer the surrounding enviroment the less percentage of conduction (??) .
I know that water can aquire (hold) a much larger percentage of heat energy (latent) w/o changing temp. than say most other things (especially air) . I know that water evaporation is not dependant on temp. ... it will still be evaporating at 32F. and lower but at a slower rate than say 80F. and higher . I know that when water evaporates it releases the 'latent' heat stored from it's liquid state .
Inside the glove , I just think that heat (the latent heat in the moisture) and stored energy potential must be making a signifgent difference in some way ... and I have the thought that the moisture that draws the body heat so quickly , is also releasing that drawn heat by way of eveaporation and it builds quickly in the glove .
I would agree that if the heat drawn from the body so quickly because of the moisture (25 X's ??) was allowed to disapate into an open enviroment quickly , then the moisture being present would make you feel colder , much colder ... but it's not allowed to disapate into an open enviroment , it's disapation is taking place in a very tight closed enviroment inside the neoprene glove , suit , etc. .
So in my mind , there is still the fact that the moisture contains 'latent heat energy' (much higher than air could store) and the question of what is becoming of that energy inside the glove enviroment . I've given my thoughts on the evaporation thing and the release of that latent heat ... lots of heat energy in that moisture , where's it go ??