“This is the most technologically advanced lamination in the paddlesports industry today. We use 100% epoxy resin infusing 4 full layers of Kevlar, S-Glass and a fabric which we do not care to divulge. The hull is baked in an oven overnight for optimum cure. As with the Golden Infusion laminate, we have achieved an ultra light weight and a product which is close to indestructible. This is a favourite laminate of outfitters and word has it, maybe the first canoe endorsed by the chiropractic society.”
What is it?
http://www.bluewatercanoes.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=55&Itemid=198
More from the Impex page
Golden Brawn Infu-lite is apparently called K-Lite when used in Impex Kayaks. Here is a claim made on that page:
“This industry first post cured epoxy infused hull provides a hull weight savings of 5-6 lbs. on average vs. carbon kevlar lamination, and a 30% increase in tensile strength.”
http://www.impexkayak.com/layups.shtml
the chiropractic industry?
Any chance the mystery fabric is “Icy Hot” medicated pads?
Can’t be the same.
Bluewater is saying 100% epoxy, Impex is saying vinylester. And no mention of the mystery fabric.
I would like to add that it comes off as ridiculous marketing, and I would never buy a boat from a company who won’t even tell me what it’s made of. These are canoes, not fighter jets. If it’s innegra etc, just tell us. The whole ‘it’s so high tech we can’t even tell you about it angle’ is ridiculous.
easy now
Word has it that Colonel Sanders has the “secret cloth” recipe.
The Col. has lost his edge
Popeye’s beats him up every day of the week.
I bet
Bluewater has always had cutting edge laminates, but I bet the mystery fabric is some variation of polyester. Just a guess, though.
Or could just be the Soric …
used for infusion and they don’t want to say 'cause this is just what everone else is using anyway.
More quotes. Better than carbon/kevlar.
Here is the quote that says the Bluewater Golden Brawn is the same as Impex K-Lite:
“Bluewater builds a 39lbs, 17’ tripping canoe that is as tough as nails and has wilderness paddlers around the world scrambling to get one for themselves. The Golden Brawn laminate is a proprietary infused epoxy process that is available in the line of Bluewater canoes and also in our Impex Kayaks (under the name K-Lite).”
http://www.paddling.net/buyersguide/whatsnew/
Saying that this infused mystery laminate is lighter than carbon/kevlar but has 30% more tensile strength is a very aggressive and surprising statement.
Plutocratic boat sluts, please buy some of these boats and torture test them for the informational enlightenment of the common weal!
Garbled. A laminate is not an infusion
process. As for the 30% claim, we may never know. I have a Bluewater made by the pre-Scott team, and the workmanship was excellent. I don’t think the inner Kevlar layers need 30% additional tension strength.
I’m merely curious to know whether they have found an epoxy thin enough for infusion. Even so, in my experience, vinylester is strong enough.
What I found garbled …
… is in the Impex description where they talk about “post cured epoxy” in one sentence and vinylester in another sentence.
no question about that!
I’m no resin chemist, but I’ve read that
vinylester has some epoxy-like bonding. Some builders seem to use this as an excuse to mix terms and come up with “vinylester epoxy”. I doubt that a vinylester is susceptible to heat cure, and only some epoxies are made for heat cure. I think we’ll have to wait for more accurate info to come through the pipeline. I know that my Bluewater is heat cured epoxy, but it was made by the old crew who were not using vinylester for anything.
Mystery material is probably
Innegra S, a polypropylene derived fiber. It is lighter and stronger than Kevlar 49 and unlike Kevlar it is NOT hydroscopic. Like Kevlar there are bonding issues, as well as the materials ability to hold resin during lamination (vertical sections etc). Thus the need to infuse. I DO NOT KNOW if this is the mystery material, but this would be my guess. Vectran is another possibility but it’s old news.
Trivia question: What’s the most under-rated material used in kayak composite construction? Answer: Plain old fiberglass…
Second that.
Go S instead of carbon for boats too. IMHO.
As far as I’ve seen from reports,
Kevlar is no more than 10-15% deficient compared to the general run of boat fabrics. Old time polypropelene was much worse. Twintex relies on polypropelene resin to stick to polypropelene cloth.
If Innegra-S is merely half as bad as its parent, it may be a nightmare.
That was my guess (my above post)
And if it’s true they should say it. They wouldn’t have been the first to make a boat in Innegra S, maybe first to do a regular production line in paddle sports though. If so, I would soooo much rather them say “We’re using Innegra!” rather than trying to create an air of mystery.
I’ve used it.
Actually made an Innegra and soric boat with Infused epoxy, post cure. Normally boat was 60 lbs. and this version was about 32.
My main concern with the material was it’s ability to stay bonded in the matrix as it’s purely a mechanical bond. I think it would be far better mixed with glass for that reason.
Any material that can take a huge hit such as Kevlar of Innegra is fine in one sense, but if that blow creates immediate interlaminar delamination so what? That’s NOT good. I’ve seen glass carbon or plain glass epoxy lay-ups take far greater hits than some of the Kevlar stuff out there. My sense is that if these guys are using some Innegra in the matrix to shed weight and add toughness that’s a good choice if used wisely and processed well.
Again, I don’t know, so this is just speculation. I’m sure they are nice lay-ups.
I think that no more than half the cloth
layers should be Kevlar, with the outer layers being glass/carbon weave or glass for the outside with carbon for the next layer in. Another problem I’ve alluded to that pertains to whitewater boats with their convex/concave surfaces and chines, is that local reinforcement or alteration of cloth schedule may be needed where a hard hit produces marked tension or compression in unexpected places. This may pertain less in sea kayaks where the hulls are predominantly cylindrical.
I also wonder whether a cloth like Kevlar that has a mismatch between good tension strength and mediocre compression strength may behave badly when a hit produces a complex sequence of compression and tension changes in the same locations. But the only “unexpected” problems I’ve seen in ww boats is inside chine damage to Kevlar due to chine compression from an outside blow to the center.
Maybe
– Last Updated: Oct-08-11 5:43 PM EST –
In my experience, when folks have something new and hot: Innegra, Vectran, etc, they want to talk about it. How about M-5?
When using something that's older and less star worthy: Core Mat, Soric, polyester, nylon, it's secret.