Buy a used boat that floats!
Find a used one cheap, even a 9’ rec boat. Use it like crazy, then look for your next boat,… repeat…
Yeah they are white water kayaks
but you will develop a very smooth stroke, can learn to roll and do some rivers.
AE Advanced Frame inflatable is NOT a
"pool toy". Obviously string has not paddled one. I have their 10.5 and 13’ kayaks and while they do not have as good a glide, they can take much rougher water than a touring/sea kayak. I frequently take mine on Class II/III rivers here in the West and that eliminates most kayaks unless they are white water specific boats. My 13’ kayak tracks well and I have no problem keeping up with other club members. These boats will allow you access to areas a hard yak won’t go. I have also taken my 13’ on the ocean to explore caves/rocky areas…again, the kevlar/carbon kayak owners tend to stay away from these places. Is it faster than a hard boat…no. But when you look at portability, durability (very difficult to even scratch the hull), stability, and cost…a great all around kayak for any kind of water.
String admitterd he had never
paddled one. looks like a great WW boat.I also admitted I’m prejudiced about length, but 20 miles is a normal paddle for me.
no whitewater
stay away from whitewater unless you know what your doing. The only think worst than a whitewater kayak on a flat lake or slow stream is a cement canoe. But I’d venture a guess the canoe would trak better than the whitewater kayak. Do your self a favor and go to a outfitters store near you. Let the sales people know what you want and then demo a few. After finding a one or two that you really like then go on something like craigslist and look for a used one near you that you can pick up.
A few to look for
Perception: Dancer, Mirage, Sabre, Corsica, Pirouette
Dagger: Crossfire, Animas
New Wave: Sleek
A bunch of others. They are about 10-11ft long. No they do not track well but you can make them track well. They are faster than inflatables and you will develop paddling skills that you would not in an inflatable and or rec boat.
river junk
i was wondering if it would be safe to use it on a local river. the river goes through farm country and a few small towns, my dad thinks that i should not use one of these kayaks on it because you never know if there is an old bicycle or a sharp piece of metal hiding in there. he tends to be pesimistic, but he does have a point. do you think it would be safe? i have never seen junk in it before, so i do not think there is much, if any debris. right now i am sitting in a hammock outside. it is a beautiful 65 degree day so i decided to string 50ft of phone cable and a heavy duty extension cord out to the hammock. that way i can relax and still be doing something. lol 
a kayak for rivers
should be no more than 12 feet. The reason is bassically… rule of longer/narrower= faster/less stability/less maneuverable (less length to width ratio percent equals a faster boat), and the other way around with shorter/wider boat with a higher length-to-width ratio percentile. And hull shape effecting performance (V hull is faster but less initially stable and less maneuverable than a U hull), and the hull shape on Touring kayaks makes them track better than White Water because of less drag, like a knife through the water compared to a hand sweeping through water. Drag has a lot to do with boat performance. For example, White water kayaks have a hull in witch the sides do not meet to a point at the ends like a touring kayak and have a higher length to width ratio percentile, hence creating more drag resulting in poorer tracking and speed in flat-water but make up in extreme ease in maneuvering and handling witch is important in Moving rapids because of the high demand for maneuvering around obstacles and obstructions.
the river
the river i would be on is very slow, has alot of room to move, and in most parts less than 5 ft deep. i am not to worried about manuvering around rocks because out here the only rocks you see are pebbles, and landscaping rocks hauled in from elsewhere. this is farm country out here. minnesota has alot of rocky regions, but that is mostly the northern, southeastern, and wisconson border areas. central minnesota and i think the southwest corner is pretty flat, but there are still plenty of woods. the river has woods along most of its edge. the river is just a nice option because i could be dropped off upstream and then travel downstream until i reach my neighbors land, and then just walk home less than a mile. a good option aside from going to the lake. i found a good video of the advanced elements advanced frame expediton on the page for it on outdoor play.
http://www.outdoorplay.com/store/Product.asp?MID=Advanced%20Elements&SKU=BIK_ADAE1
tell me what you think.
durability
so could anyone answer my question about how durable these things are?
i want to know if a piece of scrap metal could pierce the hull of the advanced frame expedition. could a jagged piece of scrap metal without any needle like points be able to tear the hull?
and in a slow moving 3-5’ deep river would it be all that hard to avoid obstacles in a 13’ inflatable?
The AE kayaks are very durable…but
a accidental puncture is possible. Keep in mind that the bladders are protected by the outer skin and the bladders have a tough fabric covering them. I would not be concerned, but do take a patch kit. More than likely in the event of hitting a sharp object, the kayak will bounce off or push to the side.
String, those are some serious paddling miles. I have gone 15 miles(and felt it on the final stretch), but not 20 miles. If doing that length, I want a hard boat. Paddle on.
Recreational boat vs. kayak
People tend to call anything with a deck a kayak. If you really want a kayak and one that you can grow a bit with, you need thigh braces. The big plastic boats with enormous cockpits have no way of connecting your body to the boat. As someone responded they are pool toys or recreational pond boats. To develop any paddling skills actually associated with kayaking, you need thigh braces, and I would recommend one with bulkheads. Look for used considering your budget. In those big cockpit tubs, all you can do is paddle it and hope the conditions agree with you.
Thankyou for pointing out the differance
I am sure half or more of th epeople here can now go home knowing that they have been on a kayaking forum without ever having a kayak.
Paddle easy,
Coffee
kayak skills
thanks for mentioning that the inflatable will not teach me good skills. i think i will have to go for something a little more expensive, and just be patient. that means i may have to wait till next summer.
Used and worthwhile
As tsunamichuck mentioned about, get an old school WW boat like a Pirouette, at the newest a Dagger RPM, used and learn to paddle straight and edge etc with that. You can pick these boats up for a couple of hundred used, they will bike trailer and are plastic so can take some dropping, and since they are WW boats will support all the skills you need.
We had two guys in Pirouettes out at this week’s evening paddle. One was leading the slower group and the other was doing fine in the fast group that consisted mostly of longer boats with more hull speed.
money
– Last Updated: May-16-08 10:35 AM EST –
it all depends how much money i can make. if i can i will go for a longer kayak. and for every person reccomending a WW kayak there is someone warning me against it. the WW kayaks seem so fat and oddly shaped. also i would prefer somthing that i will be able to have my legs straight in.
and just to let everybody know. i will be paddling it on LAKES and large slow shallow rivers.
How are you at building?
http://www.jemwatercraft.com/products.php?cat=9
They are good boats. I have built 2.
These are easy and cheap to build if you use 1/4" exterior plywood from Lowe’s. You can take as long as you like and pay as you go. The epoxy is the expensive part.
“Old school” WW boats are different
Spend some time on the internet looking beyond pnet. These are NOT the fat and oddly shaped ones that you are thinking about. Here is a link to a couple of pics of this era boat. The Dancer is similar.
Pirouette
http://oregoncoast.craigslist.org/boa/642708581.html
Crossfire
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/outrec/gear/kayak2.html
Short, Fat, Slow, Piggy
Sorry, but that REI boat you linked is gonna be one slow boat. You seem like a strong fit person. You will not be satisfied with performance of that thing masquerading as a kayak. Its almost as wide as it is long! Its just a little better than an inner tube.
But if it meest your other criteria and price, then maybe it is the best option for you. Just do not expect much more than very slow bobbing around type paddling.
building a boat
i am good at building things, but i want to get on the water sometime this summer, and with a full time job this summer i would have the time to kayak, but not enough time to build a whole boat. also i have no room in the garage because it is full of my dead grandmas stuff. i had thought about building one before, but i t is just not feasable for my first kayak. maybe as a winter project it might be good.