Looms.
three lousy pics but showing Greyaks woodwing in black, his Aleutian paddle in the middle and a Beale GP on the right. As you can see the loom lengths differ as well as blade widths. I will let Greyak explain if he wishes.
In the first pic they are hanging and don’t represent length and differences very well but it does show the shaping. 2nd and third pics the paddles are on the floor so it shows the loom lengths a lot better.
paul
Two cadences?
I prefer a range of cadence - and change it up to suit what’s going on (wind, wave, traffic, whatever).
However, over distance I will naturally settle into a pretty consistent cadence, which is based on my body’s power and conditioning (or lack thereof), and it’s ability to overcome drag (much of that from it’s own displacement). I don’t want paddles that dictate what this pace/output is through them being under or over-sized, and prefer adapting my paddles to fit me - rather than me fitting the paddles.
I have some very different paddles that are very different at different things, but with similar power requirements on me while using them for those things. Taking 5" off of one of them without changing other things isn’t going to keep it in as squarely in the zone for me as I can by changing other things too. Were after the same sort of results, I’m just looking at a lot more than length.
Just changing length would be sort of like bringing along a different size set of wheels on a bike ride (one for uphill, one for down) rather than changing gears. The way I’d do it, it’s more like being able to switch from a road bike to a Mt bike to handle terrain changes - where both bikes fit me correctly as well as suiting the conditions.
With the same paddle - while you can obviously hold different speeds at different cadences, you can also hold different speeds at same cadence, or same speeds at different cadences - these being less obvious and not in line with the “gears” thinking as you can’t do these thngs cycling.
Different tools for different jobs. A better analogy might be hammers. I’m not fond of driving 10 penny nails with a tack hammer, or a sledge (and my preferences in a framing hammer [or any type] will also naturally be different from others’ for head weight, style, and handle length).
Aleut shape
You wrote:
“Unles it is only for rolling or pure exercise, I am quickly becoming enamored with the aleut that Greyak made for me as an all rounder. Use the slightly concave side and you have speed speed speed and a easier paddle on the body for distances especially compared to any euro. Sloppier conditions, easy touring and towing you turn the paddle over and you have great control and stability. You can roll with either side up. Two or even three paddles in one. the blades are thinner so less surface for the wind.
If you ever have a chance to paddle with one I woudl highly recommend it.”
Can you post photo showing both sides?
I mis-stated that
The Aleut paddle is just fine for any of the rolls I know how to do using a paddle including behind the head, storm, reverse sweep, standard greenland, butterfly, c to c, storm rolls, etc. Perhaps it would be a problem for under the deck sculling rolls or other more challenging rolls but since i don’t know how to do them anyway, I can’t say whether the Aleut woudl work well or not.
As far as exercise, I was comparing to the woodwing that Greyak made which puts you into more of a wing rotational pattern which definitely forces some new muscle groups to sit up and take notice (or scream). Otherwise, the Aleut is a top notch exercise paddle as it gives you a lot of return for your efforts in speed and efficiency.
The comment Charlie made about forgetting about the paddle and just paddling is the best compliment I can think of.
Paul
Thanks - I was just interested to see it
in a photo. Your first photo (which is no longer visible in your post by the way for some reason) showed one side. I was curious what you meant by the concave vs the convex sides of the paddle and how these look like.
Other side…
… basically looks flat (but is actually slightly curved on mine) with no other features/details. Not much to see in a photo.
OK
I’m so spoiled by the flutter-free efficiency of the wing paddle I use that I might give a design like that a try.
Paddled a GP of unknown origin last night and I’m not sure I can live with something like that. It was not matched for me to start with (loom way too narrow) but also would flutter badly at the slightest provocation such as trying to pull harder on it. Not sure if all are like that or not… with some entry angle adjustment I was able to achieve quiet entry and mostly flutter-free path thru the water at low power, so may be there is hope for me in learning it -
Some GPs Flutter
if you use them the way they do not like to be used. If you play around with them and get to know them, the flutter usually goes away. Of course this may or may not be a sign of a bad paddle and you may legitimately ask why you should adapt to a “poor” paddle. I found the more rounded, “full”, or “club” style GPs flutter more than the thin blade ones and the narrower paddles do a bit as well. To me the narrow paddles that effortless allow you to cruise flutter when “pressed”. Its as if there is a narrow range of power they will handle without complaint. Maybe thinking it is all part of mystique or experience of using them avoids the issue. Cognitive dissonance is a wonderful metal state for kayakers as demonstrated here everyday.
Flutter is a technique thing
Any paddle can be rendered flutter free with minor stroke adjustments. If there’s flutter, it’s the paddler, not the paddle (all paddlers who feel flutter will of course disagree L). One you figure this out, someone can hand you anything and it won’t flutter.
Since you’re used to a wing - you should have one advantage trying GPs or Aleuts: You understand letting the blade find it’s optimal path. One less thing to unlearn, and half of the equation.
On the other hand, with wing you are used to a paddle that likes a fast catch and has really strong bite up front. If you try to do this with a GP you will over power the blades causing slip and flutter. Canted stroke and a loose grip takes care of a lot of this - but mostly you have to adjust to the differences in power application and learn a GP stroke.
Mostly this mis just unlearning current habits, and feeling what the paddle/water is telling you. Flutter is basically a bitch slap upside the head saying “DON’T DO THAT!”
2 minutes max on water and we could sort this out. On-line, in text, might never be clear enough.
Of course you could just stick to wings. They’re very specific, and really good for forward paddling once you learn/adapt - so most who get some mileage on them stay with them. Lots of interesting tricks with the other types that are fun to explore though…
Here’s a graphic…
… that may help you visualize the differences in power band/force application between Wing and GP.*
Note the differences at the front of the curves (left side), which likely where you’re flutter comes into play. Quicker more solid wing catch with more power up front in the stroke. Softer more gradual GP catch, with power building up and trailing off. Power more spread out and centered more mid-stroke.
You can see from where they cross/overlap that the wing blows the GP away initially, but the GP gets some more power aft and makes quite a bit of teh difference up.
The wing peaks out a little higher, and on balance the wing’s power curve covers more graph area - so the wing comes out ahead in raw power terms (assuming the paddler’s up to powering it there).
It should also be obvious looking at these why so many find the GP a lot kinder to joints and muscles.
Lastly, the technique differences perfectly maximize these power band differences.
-
- These curves assume the paddles are being used with decent versions of their respective techniques, are sized to fit the paddler reasonably well, are being used in kayaks that let them do their thing (not fat barges), and the paddler is moving along and a moderate or better pace.
Thanks - very educational
I’ll see if I can get some lessons in GP use shortly. I’m signed-up for a full (almost) day class on forward stroke soon and hopefully someone there would lend a paddle to me and the instructor would be willing to comment…