Or maybe the difference is that I weigh 130 with most of it below my waist.
Yep. I have a Caribou and an Anas Acuta, and they both are really good in the bouncy stuff, and both surf really well. Caribou tracks better, and the Anas turns on a dime if the skeg is up.
Dohhh! I’m gonna call you Lucky Doggy Paddler. My sister weighs 145 and she yaked about how much she hated my 145 Tsunami. She paddled my 140 Pungo and liked it, which shows dimensions are deceiving. The Pungo is wider, but the sides are lower. I finally took her to test paddle a 140 Tsunami 2010 model. She wanted to paddle it home.
Once when we were paddling through a passage between an Island and a point that’s know for generating tall waves (not breaking) because of the restrictions and swallower depth. She darted ahead of me when I stopped. Tilting the bottle up had me woogidy with the close intervals from the left rear quarter. I had to watch ever wave to keep from wearher cocking, taking splashes to my kidneys and getting dizzy tilting my head to drink. I finally caught her when we turned the point and saw a couple next to their power boat. They were in reclined on floating lawn chairs, reading books on virtually flat water. My sister said that was fun. I just winked. I think.I calculated that with her weight, she can carry an additional 65 lbs. My boat would be 3 lbs overloaded using the same formula. I might be wrong, but close enough. That shows how being in the right weigh class for your boat makes a big difference. Sometimes I sing the song about the Edmund Fitzgerald. Last year I lost 25 lbs and couldn’t believe how much difference it made. I told a friend that I lost the weight. He told me to turn around and I’ll find it. That’s what comes from having no goodnicks for friends. I gained 10 lbs back that didn’t fully detatch.
You are fortunate indeed, but it still requires talent and stamina.
I kayaked a section of the river below York, PA and visited a shop near where I launched. I sat in a 155 Delta, 24.5 in wide, 13.25 deck (2.75 in lower), but it seemed to fit. I went home to research the thermofoil they use and read reviews. Next weekend, I drove an hour plus to test it - gone. No more until next season. At the beginning of this past season, I called to see if they restocked - the last of their allotment sold the week before. “Snooze and looze”.
You give me too much credit! I was just trying to point out that what makes a boat stable for you might make it unstable for me, and vice-versa. Once a guy got into my boat, saying he wanted to try it out, and immediately capsized. He asked me how I could find a boat like that stable, and why would I want a boat that flipped so easily. He probably weighed twice what I do. I tried to explain that if you’re too heavy for a boat it becomes much less stable, but he insisted that my boat was inherently unstable. I tried to explain that in his boat I couldn’t use my lower body at all, and felt like I was in a bath tub, bashing my hands on the side with every stroke of the paddle, but he didn’t seem to buy that either. Oh well.
Absolutely true, but I know you need to have a level of balance and reflexes. Most people have a talent. Some have keen reflexes, some have balance, others have power and so on. You have sufficient talent, I’m sure. Watch some kids on a balance beam; having good genes is an advantage. I like watching videos of the guys like sing. Mere mortals can learn tips, but some people get there by following instinct. My limited physical ability is endurance, can’t shoot hoops, can’t bunny hop logs on a bike with ease. I’m a one trick trick pony and happy I have endurance, so I take advantage of every opportunity to enhance that.
I frequently think of when I rented a CD Nomad / Extreme. 18’10" x 21.25". I couldn’t keep it for more than 40 minutes, I was exhausted from twitching in it because it felt so unstable. Now I can’t even recreate that if I try. Partner had a Hobie 13’ x 28" Quest which she sold because she didn’t use it. She got a Eddyline Journey.
I took it for a paddle before we sold it. I was like it felt so unstable and unusable to me I was shocked.
I tried a CD Caribou once but I didn’t like it much at all. I’d like to try another Greenland type hull.
I do have a high center of gravity, being a short-waisted 5’ 5" woman (my upper body is more proportional to a 5’ 3" person so much of my mass is below the cockpit room.) But I have poor balance, having been in a bike crash in my 20’s where I sustained a fractured skull and inner ear damage on my left side. Yes, Greenland boats tend to feel wobbly when you first try them. My first one was 18’ long and 20 1/2" wide with hard chines and it felt really squirrelly to me, especially the second time I paddled it, in a channel full of power boats with wild reflected waves and wakes. But I learned fast that if you relax and test their secondary stability, most of them are quite reliable. In most of my G boats, I can lay them on their side and skull or balance brace them without capsizing.
And I am hardly an expert paddler.
It can be compared to riding a bike. At first it’s wobbly, until you learn to turn by leaning your body, but some people want a beach cruiser because it goes straight. Each has a different use and purpose. I tried following my son on trails and got the hang of some things. Then I’d mistime a move and wipe out, feeling it happen in slow motion. Don’t have the reflexed and a 21 inch frame with a 300 mm seat post doesn’t help. Canal tow paths and Rail-to-Trail paths suit just fine. It comes down to comfort and how you use your skill set. My hat is off to you thrill seekers.
A lot of paddlers are just happy with the rocking of the boat, sitting amongst the reeds chating with a friend, looking at the plants and watching the birds.
You guys need those tippy boats because they can hang on the edge where a boat like the Tsunsmi wants to return to flat as the wave turns upside down. We’re on the same page. That’s ok for me because I don’t look for waves like that. Got to know your limitations.
I’ve seen demonstrstions of the boat on its side; its definitely impressive. Its hard to find a nimble boat when you have a size 13 shoe. In 2010, I looked into the Zephyr and Tempest. It was ugly, and felt like I was trying on a high heel shoe.
So back to OP, looks like a lot of good replies.
Balance is only a marginal factor if the boat, paddler and conditions are well matched.
The whole point of getting the right boat is to end up with a hull that will go a substantial way towatds managing the water surface changes due to its own design. It does not take a paddler with unusually good balance to manage such a boat. Just one that will stay relaxed so the boat can do its job.
Yes there are boat choices that really will ask for more balance simply because the hull feels more free to keep rotating. One such boat in excellent condition is currently on consignment right now because it is just one more boat management issue than l have the time etc for these days.
But l have two others that can go out in major conditions and honestly, if the boat capsizes it is probably because l did something to interfere with it. One is considered to be a Greenland derived design. It was designed to handle the worst that the North Sea could throw at it and get a relatively new paddler home safe. Frankly not fast because it is anything but a tracker. But safe.
Staying upright is not some kind of native talent. Just being in a well matched boat and letting it do its job.
The great thing about kayaks is the incredible range of boats and prices point. My initial interest was a small rec kayak for when we had an odd number for a canoe trip. The ease of tranporting and the stability made it a good platform for fishing, so it was fitted out with multiple rod holders . About that time, dedicated fishing models started coming out. I looked at the first Wilderness Sytsem model and Heritage. I figured out that fishing was not one of my strengths. So I went the closed cockpit with a stable feel and comfortable seat that worked for my paddling environment.
There’s a kayak for every condition.
Since I got into kayaking and became a fanatic on the activity, I have tried to read all I can on the subject. I can see what was made in the days of skin-on-frame and also the modern kayaks that copy the basic shapes and forms of the skin on frame kayaks, but what I am unsure about is at what point a modern stops being Greenland style or “Greenlandish”. Looking at some of those made for purposes other then a hunting boat I see old kayaks made in different shapes sizes and forms going back a very long way.
So I believe I am totally safe to say my Old Town Loons and my Pyranha WW kayak or the Prijon Yukon are not GL style. But is my Perception Sea lion Shadow or Eclipse? Is my Necky Chatham17? Or the WS Tempest 170? (or several others)
What I don’t know is where GL style offically stops.
Well this is what it says;
Highly capable in rough waters and high winds, Greenland Style kayaks have low profile decks, flatter bottoms, hard chines, and are narrow for their length. These kayaks have high initial stability and are conducive to riding surf, while the hard chine acts as a second keel when leaned to carve a turn. The low decks are less affected by wind and aid in rolling. All are very maneuverable and well suited for special paddling techniques.
I think that’s a good overview, but again it doesn’t give any real specifics.
Low profile decks. At what point exactly is it no longer low profile?
Flatter bottoms. Flatter then which kayak that is NOT a GL style? Again what is the exact point of designation?
Hard chines. OK I can see that on most of the pictures of Greenland kayaks made in the old days, but I’d have to ask if that is a GL feature, or can a rec-Kayak also have those? Can a European style have them and not be a GL kayak?
Narrow for their length. Again I’d have to agree this is a GL trait, but not only a GL trait. Racing kayaks and surf skis also are narrow fir length. My Chatham17 is fairly narrow at 17’ 3" long and only 21" wide. Is it a GL kayak? (I truly don’t know)
Now I am NOT trying to be confrontational at all. I am admitting my ignorance here. I am sincere in that— and also sincere in asking if there is some specific form that is or is not a GL kayak?
I am only pointing out that such terminology is not specific enough to teach me (and maybe not anyone else either ) what is not a GL style kayak.
What IS a GL kayak seems fairly easy to describe (skin on frame, and copied from an old kayak actually made by a kayak maker in a village in Greenland.)
But at what point is a kayak NOT GL style? Is there a specific set of shapes and measurements— or is GL it just a general title?
No hard rule or answers like math.
Look at different hull shapes listed by CD. It will give you an idea. It’s all interpreted by each manufacturer. Manufacturers can claim anything they want. Like dogs hundreds of variations.
Chatham have flat bottom? Hard chines? Low deck height?
Does any rec kayak have those traits? Any in this rec kayaks you know of?
What is a sports car? No hard rules available. No HP number, no wheelbase number, no weight numbers, it’s your interpretation.
What is a CD Prana? They labeled it a Danish kayak. What is a North American style kayak? Again CD made their interpretation of what they made.
Another interpretation
Necky Chatham 16 Kayak: Boat Review - Paddling Magazine.
It’s seems to be a British GL, interpretation.
In general, Greenland style kayaks have hard chines, a “V” shaped keel line, a fair to large amount of rocker (Most, not all), and lower decks than other types of kayaks.
The Anas Acuta is a really good example of a commercially built G-boat- heavily rockered, short waterline for the length of the boat, and hard chined. The rear deck is really low, and the foredeck is lower than most production boats. It is a direct knock-off of a real Greenland kayak brought back to England in the late 1950’s, with a few changes for europeans - longer waterline, and higher foredeck.
A kayak with soft chines or a round bottom would not be considered a “Greenland” design. Also, a wider boat (Say more than 22 inches) is kinda stretching the type of design. There are a lot of boats that incorporate certain design features that are not considered to be Greenland boats, such as the Nigel Foster Silhouette, which while it has hard chines, it also has a round bottom, and not a lot of rocker. (Damn fun boat to paddle though).
It’s a mix of design characteristics that distinguish one type of design from another. Hard chines alone doesn’t always mean it is a Greenland style kayak.
Silhouette looks great, my type of hull but I wouldn’t fit.
So which of my boats would be considered Greenland-type, my Necky Elaho or my CD Gulfstream? Thanks for an answer.
Neither of them.