You probably should avoid the ones with a negative righting moment if you’re planning on surfing.
Ocean cockpits are not that common anymore, although some boats are available with them and they are an option if you build your own boat. With an ocean cockpit it is more important that you have a reliable roll, as they are considerably more difficult for a person to reenter the cockpit when doing a rescue than with the more common keyhole cockpit.
Cockpit and sprayskirt rim design have improved to the point that the sprayskirt on a normal keyhole cockpit is less likely to implode with all but the largest dumping waves than some of the earlier designs. It’s important that the sprayskirt is properly matched to the boat.
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Yes. What sparaa said.
“The best suited kayak for big water/high winds is the kayak you’re most comfortable in to do self rescues in rough conditions.”
I would only add that the absolute best self-rescue is a reliable brace and a reliable roll.
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I get what Sparaa said, but I’d rather be in a boat that allows me to stay upright, performs well with me in it during those challenging conditions. You should NEVER paddle in conditions so severe that you and your group would not be able to get paddlers back in their boats if they get knocked over.
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We’re in agreement, steevey. Having equipment that performs well is the thing. What I’m trying to get across to the OP (and anyone else who’s interested) is this: The Greenland kayak and paddle are great tools for rolling and bracing. If you develop these skills along with your good equipment you are good to go out in challenging conditions.
I think a good goal is to not care one bit if you find yourself upside down. Just stay in your nice rolling boat and roll up with your nice rolling paddle.
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People are not good at judging what “so severe” means outside of obvious things like not going out in 35kts and 12ft waves. Unless you’re religiously sticking to flat water, there’s lots of things that can happen which you aren’t expecting that results in you getting dumped in the drink. Furthermore, something like a greenland kayak - which is arguably designed for sea kayaking, is still a pretty narrow boat to accommodate easy rolls. Its not the type of boat to choose if you want to emphasize “upright” as one of your criteria.
This brings me back to my core point - the best boat for you to take out in conditions is one that you are comfortable doing self rescues.
Disagree - A narrow hull is less affected by waves as they pass under the hull, so there is less body and bracing effort required to counter the wave’s force - making it easier to stay upright. Greenland-style kayaks in conditions probably not suitable for beginners, granted.
Narrow or not goes to proper fit. At my size and weight I am as stable in my shorter sea kayak with a 19.5 inch beam at the waterline as a bigger guy at up to 2 inches wider. Would be the same with a truer Greenland hull.
Like above - fit of paddler to boat is everything. The rest is details.
A narrow hull is less affected by waves as they pass under the hull, so there is less body and bracing effort required to counter the wave’s force - making it easier to stay upright.
This is true up to a point of course:
try paddling a Sprint K1 in waves and you know what I mean, because that is a narrow hull that certainly does not make it easier to stay upright in waves.
Patently untrue. Narrow hulls cut through water, yes - but there’s less contact for water tension so they are significantly more affecting by waves. Experienced paddlers compensate for this by being able to use their core to balance the boat and take advantage of the narrower design for speed. Inexperienced paddlers can’t.
There’s a reason why K1’s and elite surfskis aren’t used in heavy conditions.
I’m not sure what part of this is disagreeing with anything I’m saying. Also narrow isn’t just about fit - regardless of body size, some folks might want to go to a narrow boat for competition reasons and they can make it work just fine with enough practice.
Regardless, we’re getting off track with folks taking my commentary as a slight to their personal situation.
At the end of the day, if you can paddle and rescue yourself in your boat then its A-OK for you.
Perhaps a caveat is appropriate … many people practice self and assisted rescues in relatively calm water, typically not the kind of water in which one capsizes. Practicing in rougher water allows one to learn that certain boats are not all that A-OK after all. This all evolves with experience.
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You’re right- one should be comfortable doing self rescues in the environments/conditions they plan on paddling.
Your comment was directly related to suitability of Greenland type kayaks in conditions, the topic of this Post. Narrow Greenland-type or -derivative kayak hulls react less to transverse waves, thereby enhancing effective transverse stability, so it’s easier to stay upright. K1’s and surfskis are extreme examples of hull forms, they are not relevant to the Post.
They are relevant to the statement that a narrow hull is less affected by waves, as it is much more complicated than that. A very good read about this is here:
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So at what point does skinny / width get to be a detriment in rough water?
Basically what he says is that a flat-bottomed hull, regardless of kayak width, is more stable. I don’t have enough experience to agree or disagree, but he does say this which confirms the point that boat stability always depends on the paddler:
“The key to edging a flatter hull lies in correctly fitting the kayak to the paddler’s weight and height. A flat bottomed boat that’s too wide will be difficult to edge. For most folks, a kayak under 22 inches will get the job done. Lighter paddlers will need narrower boats. Heavier paddlers will be able to edge wider boats with no trouble and will benefit from the added stability of a wider hull.”
I don’t benefit from the perceived stability of a wider hull. YMMV.
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I did not take anything as a slight. Just that in deference to less experienced paddlers, the idea of narrow can be taken as a hard measurement rather than in context w the overall fit of the boat.
So thought it worth mentioning.
@Doggy_Paddler, the difference between a flat bottom on a wide and narrow boat makes sense. I had a wide flat bottom on a Heritage fishing boat, and the 30" width made it very uncomfortable in any condition.
My point being that at some point, too wide hurt rather than helped with that boat.