Greenland paddle - 220 vs 230 cm?

I’ve been paddling with a 220 cm Kalleq for several years now, and I’ve been very happy with it. Thinking of getting another (but in a new color), and I’m not sure about length. On their website, they just say something like, longer for more power, shorter for easier paddling. Anyone use one of these (or similar) in both lengths? TBH, sometimes I do feel like I’d prefer more power out of my Kalleq. OTOH, I like that it’s easy to use and doesn’t make me sore (for the most part), so I wouldn’t want to negate those advantages. I also have a Werner Cyprus that I use occasionally, but I prefer the GP. The Cyprus does seem to have much more power, though.

BYW, I am a hair shy of 6’ and about 155 lbs. My main boats are a P&H Scorpio II and a WS Tempest.

I find I do better with longer paddles, but I am short and muscular and my long GL and Aluet paddles (8 feet and one is a 9 foot) do very well for me.
Aleut paddle by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
DSCN5000 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

I have made quite a few of them for friends, and 2 of my friends who are my height use 7’ 4" and 7’ 6" paddles but are not on the water as often as I am, so I’d assume they need a bit less resistance because they don’t paddle 4-6 days a week, and also because I am simply stronger then they are. So making a recommendation for length and also for blade size is not something one person can do perfectly for someone else. The paddles can be made to any size and length but the paddlers are all different. I am only 5’ 6" but I weigh 189 pounds and have very little fat on me, so with a short thick body and big diameter arms. I go at a cadence of around 60-65 Strokes per minute and I do it all day long with no pain or fatigue. My friend Steve M used a GL paddle I made form him that’s 7’ 4" long, and can only go for about 6 hours, but he paddles about 2 times a month. He’s my height but only 138 pounds.
So I am of the opinion the paddler is more important to focus on then the paddle.
If the paddle were wood you can order one long and if it’s too long you can cut it down. But that’s not possible with a carbon paddle.

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I don’t have those two but I do switch off between a 230 Gearlab Akiak and a 220 Eastpole Nanook (since I prefer unshouldered rounded tip paddles). The Akiak and Nanook are about the same weight (820 grams) and have similar paddling characteristics but I do notice slightly more power in the longer one. That was most noticeable 3 years ago when we were paddling south on a flatwater section of the Youghiogheny River on a day when there were apparently heavy rains upstream. A mile before our lunch stop destination the current we were paddling against became so strong that it was a battle to not be pushed backwards. I had the longer Akiak with me and was pleasantly surprised that the little extra couple of inches that I could dig in with it allowed me to keep up with my partner who was using a larger bladed Werner.

I do admit I usually prefer the 220 paddle (or my 213 cedar one-piece) – I’m much shorter than you and use boats that are 20" to 24" beam. The extra couple of inches of the 230 can sometimes feel clumsy on leisurely outings (it was the only size they had in stock in red when i bought it) but it does add a bit of “oomph” when I need that power. I may start carrying it as my deck spare instead of the 230 carbon Werner that I have been using as backup.

Thanks! Yeah, I do sometimes feel like I want a bit more oomp from the Kalleq. A few other considerations…I tend to paddle high angle a lot, so not sure going longer would be a good idea. OTOH, one thing I like about my Cyprus is that I can paddle at a slower cadence. I just seem to naturally gravitate toward a slow cadence, with long, powerful strokes. With my Kalleq, I do find myself paddling at a slightly higher cadence to get the same speed as I would with my Euro. So, I don’t know, maybe the 230 Kalleq would be a better fit for my style?

Also, I’m not sure it would make sense to have 2 Kalleqs of the same length. My current one is a bit banged up, but doesn’t technically need replacing. I just like the seasonal colors, so thought I get a second one.

One other thing is, the 230 Kalleq is heavier than the 220. Not significantly, but it is a difference.

It’s most likely a matter of personal preference. I use a 218, which seems to be my best length. Been using that length for 20+ years after some tinkering with different ones. I ended up with the length that a traditional rule recommends - arm span plus elbow to fingertip length. Mine are all homemade, so I can play all I want with size.

I’m 5’7" and paddle a Current Designs Caribou, and a Boreal Design Ellesmere. Worked every bit as well in a Valley Anas Acuta also. Not sure if a different boat would have any effect on paddle length unless there was a big difference in beam or deck height.

Comfort should be rule #1, IMO

Definitely will can apply more power with a longer GP. I like the ease of general (high angle) paddling with my 210 Kalleq. But I can do high angle and get more power with my 220 Akiak. I get some fluttering in a fast start up with the Akiak when I am sprinting (late) for a wave. Need to give myself more lead time than with a Euro when trying to catch a wave. Also, the longer GP offers more power but the length gets in the way when changing stern rudders on a steep waveface. So, I went with a 200 cm but wider Aukanek (Gearlab “surf paddle”). Definitely works better for surfing but not as well my Euros which I’ve become more accustomed to after transitioning out of SOFs and GL style paddling. Of course the “skinny stick” matched very well to my SOFs which were 17’ long x 17" wide and under 30 lbs.

FWIW.

-sing

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I am 5 ft 11 3/4 in tall, and use a P&H Cetus MV. I have the Kalleq 230 cm. It is a great paddle, and I have not thought that a shorter one would work better. But I do not have a 220 cm to compare, my other paddles are Werner Kalliste 230 cm.

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Buy a less costly wooden paddle with a longer length, try it out for a while, and if you end up deciding it’s too long you can cut it down a bit. I prefer wooden paddles now even after starting out with a carbon GP. Less slippery and better for rolling. YMMV

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Doggy_Paddler and I agree here. I’d buy (or make) a longer paddle and maybe even with wider blades. Then if it’s too heavy, long, or too wide for easy use with your hand size, simply cut it down a bit at a time until you get a perfect paddle for your own preferences.

My “oversize greenland” was made for that exact reason and after using it for 1 long day I came to the realization it was perfect the way I made it. The blades are wider then what most are. The average GL blade made today is 3.5" wide and my Oversize GL is 4- 7/16" wide. The average GL molded paddle is the same size as what is found in the collections of “winners paddles” in Nook, but it must be pointed out that the average Inuit man is small compared to the average American or European man. So in my limited but interested research, I find that most of what we see offered today are made as near copies of those used so well by men of between 5’ 5" to 5.7" and with smaller hands then most of those folks using them today.

My nephew lives in Soldotna Alaska and made friends with an older lady who’s husband used to be a paddle maker farther north. Her name is Ah Nna’. Sadly her husband passed away nearly 20 years ago. But she told Liam how her husband made paddles, and I adopted the same method. It seems to be a good way to do it. Maybe not 100% perfect, but it always gets someone very close to a perfect fit.

The method I was told about is to measure from the 1st joint of the middle finger to the mid radius of the thumb and palm. This will be the blade width at the tips.
Next measure the full spread of the outstretch arms from finger tip to finger tip, and add 1 full cubit from the man or woman getting the new paddle. For a “big trips paddle” (often what he called long tours along the Alaskan coast) you add a full hand width. Measure the outstretch hand from pinky tip to thumb tip.
For very powerful paddlers he said to leave the tips untapered for the same measurement of overall hand size, and the taper should start that far away from the tips. So in my case my paddles taper from the loom to 8.5" away from the ends of the blades, but that last 8.5" is untapered.

A few men were powerful enough to add 2 hand widths to the length above.

I wish I knew the village the old man lived in, because I’d call these paddles by that name. Or his name, (or nick-name) which Ah Nna’ said is Cy. For now I am calling them Greenland/Boysen style paddles. (for lack of a better term or name)

The typical ribbed blades are not made that way. We call that style the Aleut paddle. They are a shouldered paddle blade and loom, and the blades are mostly untapered for about 3/4" of their length and about 3.5" wide. They are ribbed on one side of the blades which is the power face. Most are close to 8 feet long and some as long as 9.5 feet. The Aleut paddle I have in the picture above is made in this way, and it’s 9’ 1" long and 3.5"" wide for most of the blade length, ending in bullet shaped tips.

Because of the length of some of these paddles, I make most of mine with splits today. I use those made by Kajak Sport from Finland.
Rich Paddle 1 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
The Aleut paddles have a “rounded triangular loom” so I can’t use the split on them and still have then look correct, but I have compromised a few times and used an oval loom on an Aleut paddle so it can be made as a 2 piece. The biggest reason is because shipping paddles of around 8 -9 feet is VERY costly. That and the fact that having a 2 piece paddle on the deck rigging, taken apart, keeps it from sticking out bast the bow, and in big waves such a protrusion can be a problem.

All said, I’d recommend making one that fits your body measurements and make it that size or larger so as to be able to make it smaller in the future if you’d like.

I have several friends who use carbon GL paddles and I have used several of them from several makers. (So far I have used 7 of them at various times, 2 of which were just last Sunday) All seem too small for my liking. Too short and too narrow in my opinion. All work well and none are bad, but I have come to far prefer those I made for my own use, because I like them longer and wider, and as Doggy_Paddler said, the feel of wood is also a benefit you only appreciate after you use a wood and a carbon paddle side by side.

The wood itself is far less costly then carbon fiber but to make a good paddle is time consuming, so if you buy a wood paddle you are mostly paying for the labor it takes to make it from lumber. In the case of carbon paddles you are paying for the materials and also the investment on molds and machines to make them.
If you have wood working skills you can make your own and if your time is counted as pleasure time (instead of work time) you can make a very good GL or Alaskan paddle for about $30 - $60. If you pay someone who does it as a profession I think you can expect to pay between $350 and $425 for a good wood paddle. Fancy one are even more. I laminate mine from 3 pieces of wood (usually Yellow/Ponderosa pine) so the loom and some of the blades are reinforced, and between the glue up and the total time in shaping sanding and finishing I have about 14 hours into a paddle. It’s usually broken up and done over 3 days. If you make one oversize the same time will apply, but be spread out more because as a rule you’ll use them in the raw a few times to be sure it’s what you want. Final finishing comes after you are sure.

At one time I was 6’, now closer to 5’11". I made GP from a nice clear cedar 2x4 following the popular at the time YouTube instruction. Great instruction, but some complained they felt their paddles were just a bit too short. I liked my new paddle, but realized it was not up to the refinement I was seeing in the work of other skilled makers. It went back into the shop to take it up a notch in refinement, as in a thinner tip blade and smoother loom. I was pleasantly surprised to find this made a noticeable difference, but still haunted thinking it was about 1 1/2" too short. Being an architect, I am familiar with reinforcement. I crafted a J-B Weld extension with narrow integral galvanized nails drilled into the tip and woven galvanized wire. All then painted nicely with epoxy paint. I also want paddlers to remember the boat knows what you weigh and how high you stick up out of the cockpit. I have a long torso, so I might be up the same height as someone 5’-11" to maybe 6’-2". My paddle is now 223 cm and feels just right. I was an early doubter, but now my two Werner carbon paddles sit idle.

P.S. I just measured my wingspan + cubit, and I get 234 cm. Longer than I thought, actually. However, if I measure my torso height while sitting, of the height if the middle of my fingers with hand over head while standing, I get closer to a 220 cm length.

This is an old Qajaq USA poll of paddle demensions of various GL style paddlers who carved their paddles, varying on the “traditional” wing span measurement. Of particular interest is the dimensions of the paddles of Greg Stamer and Maligiaq Padilla, both Greenland comp champs.

https://qajaqusa.org/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=349669&module_id=358262

Maliqiag is maybe around 5’7" or so but uses a paddle about 228 cm but less than 2 5/8" wide. He obviously was able to win racing segments of the comp with high sustained cadence.

-sing

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I’ve two Gram Kajak CF GP paddles, one 220 cm and one 224cm. In my experience, the shorter paddle provides very similar power but at a slightly higher angle and faster cadence. It is my first choice for surf classes. The longer Gram GP would be on my foredeck as a ready spare. Can’t say enough good things about the Grams, btw, and they pack well for travel.
Having said that, outside of surf class or rock gardening, I prefer my wood GP’s, esp. the one I cut from a $5 Lowes stud. Now both wood GPs are 225cm, both are comfortable in all conditions. The WRC was 91 inches originally, never liked the paddle that long. Lots of personal preferences regards paddle length as seen in this thread.
Years ago used Werner Kalliste and Ikelos paddles, loved the power and acceleration of the Ikelos, but then I learned about GP’s; both Werners were sold, done with Euros.
Last summer I was challenged to a sprint race as part of a surf class, me in my Anas Acuta with the 224 Gram, vs. an ACA L5 instructor with a Romany RM and a Celtic paddle. I was able to match acceleration and speed. Bit enlightening.

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Here is an article written by Greg Stamer, discussing Maliqiaq’s paddling technique.

-sing

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One thing to keep in mind is that buying the same model in a carbon Greenland paddle. You don’t really get a proportionate paddle by sizing up by 10 cm. In manufactured Carbon paddles, only the loom length changes. So, you will get a paddle with a 10 cm longer loom. (going from 220 to 230)

Best Wishes
Roy

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The only carbon custom producer that sized the blade and the loom separate, that I am aware of, is no longer in business.

Thanks! Not sure how gearlab does it, but their site says the 230 cm Kalleq is longer, and also has an increased loom length (which I don’t think I need). Plus, it’s also heavier. So, I just decided to stick with the 220 cm length. From what I’ve read, this is a good size for most people. When standing with my current paddle, I can bend my fingers over the top with my arm raised. If it were 230, I don’t think I could do this. Also, going by some of the torso measurement guidelines, 220 would be ideal for me. The “wingspan + cubit” measurement points me to a 230 paddle, but the “wingspan + distance from elbow to wrist” says 220.

On top of all this, I’ve been paddling with 220 cm paddles for years, and I know they work well. Would be interesting to try a 230 at some point, but I don’t think I’d want to buy one sight unseen without trying it first.

I made these paddles to figure out actual paddle sizes preferred by a pearson . there are 3 different widths, all with adjustable length looms and in each width there are 5 different blade lengths.

These paddles would enable enough variables to get an idea of what any size would be like on the water for any person, before they decide on what to make or buy.

More exact than any body measurements

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To figure out your size or what you would like has always been a dilemma. to go a step beyond, i also built several in multi piece configuration, that can vary the shoulder and tip design. along with loom length and paddle width and length all changes independent of each other.

Good Luck
Best Wishes
Roy

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Wow, that would be nice to try out that many configurations!

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