Greenland paddling tips

Advice
#41

He paddles my dog around behind me so I’m not stupid :laughing::+1:t3:

Would you want to be paddling a canoe? Because I would not.

I’m not sure he is even into this paddling and camping but he humors me.

I like the tube idea and also the splitting the paddle and buying the fittings. He claims I should not cut the paddle because it’s a special artisan paddle.

His new canoe specifications are:

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His paddle he uses for the Solstice SS he thinks is a little short and so I traded paddles with him to my Werner Euro and that seems better.

Question: is the CM length found anywhere on the paddles or do I need to measure it?

I guess I’m out of my favorite paddle and now I have the one he stabs the rocky bottom with. I told him he must treat my paddle like it’s made of fine crystal.:face_with_raised_eyebrow:

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#42

Very nice post, thanks for taking the time to pound that out.

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#43

@davbart Regarding the “less strain” with a GP, I am finding that to be true. I paddled 10 miles the other night, and it almost felt like nothing. I did notice a little soreness afterwards, but I was sore in slightly difference parts of my arms and body than I was with the Euro. Maybe this is just an adjustment period to the new paddle. I am going to make myself keep using the GP for a while and see how it goes.

For me, the trickiest thing is getting the angle right. I can tell when it’s not quite right because the blade makes a slight scratching sound, and I can see a stream of bubbles peeling off it underwater. When I get a good stroke with a good angle, it’s dead silent, and I think has a bit more power. The other big difference I feel is where the power actually comes on. Instead of being up front like the Euro, it’s midstroke and farther back. The power phase seems to last longer as well. It’s quite a different experience, but I am liking it so far.

Speed wise, I am definitely slower with the GP, maybe by around 0.5 mph. Maybe this will change over time.

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#44

@MohaveFlyer most are marked on the sales tag, but not the paddle. Some kayakers express dimensions in cm length/cm2 blades, while it seems common in the US to use cm lenght/sq in for blades. I just measure length in inches then convert to cm.

I have the same paddle in different lengths, and a few of the same paddles for different family members. The problem of mix-up can be solved using a small assortment pack that contains five different colors (black, yellow, blue, red, white) of electrical tape. The tape is durable and holds up well over the years.

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The black Kalliste, 2nd from left with a red band, is the 240 cm. It also marks your paddle in a group trip or a shuttle. If someone else is tasked with fetching the paddles, tell them to get the paddles with yellow and red tape, with no tape, etc.

The kayak triggers me to go someplace fast. Although there are many different styles of canoe, it’s just the opposite for me. A canoe can be just as versatile, but it triggers me to relax and glide. Tandem kayaks are expensive, restrictive and fairly heavy; a 16 ft canoe is stable, quiet, easy to control even with a single paddler using the right stroke, it’s easier to enter/exit, and it has lots of room.

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#45

good idea on the electrical marking tape tagging. I have plenty of rolls of that from my former career as a sparkette. I need to do that with my paddle stash to avoid mess ups like the one I report below. I have used that tape to color code tent poles and the frame segments for my folding kayaks to simplify assembly. Should have thought to do that with the paddles now that the number of them in my stash has grown.

Tip for wider choices in marking – an electrical distributor will have more tape colors than the primaries plus green and white your local builder supply or hardware store offers which are used for 120/240 volt systems. That’s because the 480/277 volt color code is brown, orange, yellow for phase wires and grey for neutral and the old codes for hard wired fire alarm loops included pink and purple as well.

I screwed up a couple of weeks ago when grabbing gear for a day paddle with a friend who was eager to try kayaking. We drove nearly and hour to our big local lake on a perfect morning, only to discover that I had grabbed two halves of a paddle that did not match at all – same colors but different maker and model and completely different center connector. And in my haste to pack I had not brought my usual deck spare either for my boat. i felt like a total screwup and was desperately trying to figure out how to salvage the trip.

The state park where we were has a small souvenir and snack kiosk with an information counter beside the launch area. I went in to ask the park staff if there were any rental concessions nearby where I could rent or borrow a paddle for the day. The woman at the counter told me immediately not to worry, she had just the thing. She lead me back to their lost and found corner in the back room and they had 4 kayak paddles that people had left behind at the dock since the season began! Included a beat up but intact fiberglass Werner that worked out perfectly for my friend – no charge, I just had to drop it off before I left.

Could be something to keep in mind if you arrive at a state park and realize you are short a paddle or PFD and are anywhere near a service or ranger station – they are bound to have a stash of unclaimed stuff. I also could have borrowed any one of several PFD’s and a number of nice looking hats and water bottles! Even a watercraft, if a deflated rainbow unicorn giant floatie qualifies…

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#46

Good to know. Especially the additional tape colors. Notice the tape is near the drip ring. Never had problems with them being degraded by the water, as long as its dry and clean when applied.

#47

ET; some good advice here so I won’t go on too far here. I will say that I kind of agree that a well used euro could possibly be somewhat quicker than a gp. I have to qualify that by saying that the key words are “well used”. So many aren’t The euro does for me have an edge in immediate maneuvering. I find the entire blade being at the end of the shaft offers more instant response to power application. I find that the principles using the gp are essentially the same as with a euro: rotation from the hips, leg drive, load the blade, and definitely holding off on rotation until the blade actually enters the water.

Also, the gp blade is meant to be used with a cant or angle. I found personally that the angle was noticeably greater than I’d imagined. Experiment with that angle until you find what works best in your hands.

PS: that scratching sound you might hear as you acclimate to a gp isn’t from a bad angle on the blade; it’s from applying power to the stroke before the blade has fully caught the water.

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#48

Considering that GPs are typically used in kayak with a beam width of 22" or less and with the paddler sitting only 2" above the water at most, the narrower, lower canoe would seem to be the best choice. That said, unless you have really long arms, you’ll need a substantially longer than normal GP to do the job. Frankly, you’re probably better off with either a narrow-bladed Euro paddle or an Aleut style paddle with a long loom (shaft). Neither of these requires canting the blade for best performance, so it doesn’t matter if you can’t hold the root of the blades and cant them, like you should with a GP.

I hope you can makes sense of all the “cants” above. :wink:

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#49

@jrp001 you are correct in saying much depends on a commitment to learn the paddling art. There’s a power tradeoff between the lower stress of a narrow Greenland paddle and a large surface area of a high angle Euro paddle.

Perhaps I’m misunderstanding some advice that I’ve read, but I get the impression that if a paddler can’t get the acceleration or power from a 94.5 inch high angle paddle, try a Greenland paddle with less surface area. Now I won’t disagree that if someone learn proper technique for using a Greenland, it’s possible to go faster than if using the Euro. However, it’s also true that if the paddler devoted adequate attention to learning how to use the Euro, it would most likely be faster. That isn’t to say the Greenland isn’t superior for certain manuevers. That’s a whole different topic.

There’s also no doubt that Greenland paddles can be used for high or low angle. However, just as with Euro paddles, it doesn’t mean its equally efficient to use a 210 cm (82.6 inch) or a 273 cm (108 inch) Greenland interchangeably as either low or high angle, any more than its efficient to use a 210 cm or 250 cm (98.4 inch) Euro interchangeably.

In short, I often get the impression that the Greenland paddle is a panacea for the failure to understand how to properly use a Euro. After all, when you use a Euro, you reach far, stick it in the water, grunt as you pull it back, take a couple strokes, rest from shoulder pain and repeat, or just model an olympic paddler. Failing that, give the Greenland a try. It fees like a butterfly wink, just cant the blade.

Hope I’m just misunderstanding the message.

#50

Yup, makes sense. And never having used a kayak, I didn’t have an accurate comparison in my head about beam and seating. My boats are reasonably slim in the canoe world but it doesn’t sound like a GP is really a great option. I like experimenting and traded around several canoes in the past few years learning about different hulls, lengths, etc. Probably more practical that I concentrate on learning the single paddle; still got a long way to go with that. Definitely learned some things from reading this.

#51

Me too. Thanks all!

#52

Hi jyak;

Yep, I do think you’ve misunderstood me. Sure, there is a bit of a power trade off between gp and euro. Though I believe it comes at the beginning of a stroke. It’s important to understand that the gp actually has about the same surface area of blade; though it’s distributed differently. That distribution is what accounts for the disparity of stress during a stroke. The euro, with the short, wide blade loads immediately while the gp with it’s narrow long blade takes time to fully load as it takes time to fully immersed the blade. In my eyes anyway the gp does not have the same immediate acceleration that’s possible with a euro.

As you say, maneuvers with both paddles are different: I definitely agree. I use both a gp and a euro. The gp is easier on my body (subjectively of course). I find it “virtually” equal in cruising speed to my euro, though I do find that the euro for me, is more confident and immediate in response to maneuvers. Note, I’m just saying “for me”.

I can’t say I disagree that for some, the gp is just an “easier” way to paddle. Good stroke production is a process, for both types. I find the stroke process to be virtually the same for both styles (with minor variation: the principles are the same). I’ve been paddling/teaching for nearly 50 years and still find stroke production to be a learning process. Every accomplished paddler I know feels the same way.

I don’t see the gp as a panacea at all. Both styles require learning proper technique. I don’t view one as superior to the other; just different things that have their own idiosyncrasies but accomplish the same thing.

The only thing you’ve said that I take exception to is “when you use a euro, you reach far, stick it in the water, grunt as you “pull” back, take a couple strokes, rest from shoulder pain and repeat”. The pull back part is key. I feel that one should never have the sensation of “pulling” with a paddle, gp or euro. It’s the movement of legs, hips, and torso that rotate for power. Arms are just a connector between the body and paddle.

In general I think we both feel the same way about all this. Thanks for the comments… Have fun.

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#53

I experience it the same way. When I am just paddling around with my SINK, or go out some distance with my fishing SOT (Scupper Pro), I tend towards the GP and find that I easily maintain a 3.5-4 MPH pace. However, if I am surfing or on white water, I favor the Euro because I can get quicker hold in the water for maneuvering strokes. I can also surf with the GP as long as I adapt and recognize a delay in getting to speed. Can’t use a GP well in ww because you can’t always use the full extent of blade area because of the shallower depths and impingement of boulders in slots and chutes.

sing

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#54

@jrp001 I was in agreement with your post. I didn’t make it clear that my impression from “some” posts is that if the Euro isn’t working for you, try the Greenland.

The irony is that when a paddler is befuddled by a Euro, introducing them to the Greenland seems like jumping from the pan into the fire. This may be an unfair comparison (and I graciously accept any hate mail for it), but it seems like telling a person if you can’t handle a two-wheel bike, try a tricycle (I don’t liken the Greenland to a tricycle - in fact, the efficiency of indigenous paddles is remarkable; especially the aluets with a ridge which sounds like doesn’t require cant).

It’s none of my business what someone uses or what another person recommends, but I have to vent on this: when someone invests $475 on a Werner Cyprus paddle and asks for help in learning how to “increase speed and acceleration in a new boat,” its unbelievable to me, to suggest shelving a high end paddle that he or she is familiar with and start over with a completely different paddle.

You have a very good post. To put my comments in perspective, I’m the one out of line, because this thread is “Greenland Paddling Tips”. My frustration started three or four posts ago. Time for me to stop confusing the topic. Thanks for the well done post.

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#55

I mostly agree with you on this. The only place i would recommend making a jump is for those struggling to learn a roll. An extended Greenland paddle roll can make up for less than perfect body mechanics. :slight_smile:

sing

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#56

I used the Greenland paddle I made, but it doesn’t offer what I need. Indigenous style paddles are incredibly efficient tools, especially so with manuevering. The state of development reminds me of the peak development and efficient underwater profile of the three-log Chesapeake Bay Log Canoes that matched the hull efficienciy of advanced WW2 destroyers.

I share quite a bit of research with Steve Z. His experiments with home made paddles, coupled with his recent experience using the Aqua Bound Eagle and the Werner Kalliste opened my eyes about paddles. I always been a firm advocate of high end Euro paddles. Steve is still trying to figure out how to get the most out of his Euro, yet his observations helped me improve my paddling efficiency. He’ll eventually figure out the Euro, but I’m now convinced that his paddling environment is more suited for the Greenland style of paddle. That isn’t so hard to accept, considering how the paddles evolved to handle such conditions.

@sing you embody the ideals of exploration, zest for learning, adaptation, and sharing. You’re a good role model for the forum. You put the paddle selection in a clear light. Paddles are not just paddles. Everyone should have a golf bag full of paddles, from drivers through putters. One paddle does not fit all circumstances.

There are many reasons to convert to a Greenland or Aluet style paddle. I’ll let someone else handle that topic; however, improving acceleration or top speed is not one. It will move a kayak faster than I thought possible.

Along similar lines, I had thoughts of using a kayak paddle in a canoe. Once you learn the key strokes with a canoe paddle and consider the countless blade shapes, converting to a kayak paddle seems a step backward. All I suggest is to learn how to use the tool you have, then expand your range of options.

#57

I am soooo bad. Right after I posted that comment about the Eastpole Nanook two-piece GPs, I checked out their most recent website update and found out one of their US dealers had my size in stock and ordered it. Been doing a lot of impulse buying lately (indulging myself in anticipation of a nice profit from a property I am selling at the end of the month).

It arrived yesterday and it really is a lovely paddle, light and smooth, with good balance and nicely finished. I’ll be testing it out this coming week. Though, as with all new wooden paddles I admit I am like the teenager with new white sneakers, loathing the first scuffs.

I like that this paddle has the epoxy “bone edge” reinforcing the blade tips, though they are not replaceable like the ends of the GearLab (they send you extra tips when you buy those.) I am typically rough on my blade edges because of the nature of the places where I paddle.

I did have a bit of an initial crisis after snapping it together – could not get it apart! Fussed with it for quite a while and then gave up, wishing I had spritzed it with Boeshield lube before assembly. That was yesterday, right after the FedEx guy brought it. This morning it separated with just a little effort. I wonder if the fact that it had been sitting in the hot truck all day before delivery made the material swell a bit and when it cooled overnight, that did the trick. The connector fit is quite snug, but that’s what you want (I will Boeshield it, as soon as I find my bottle of the stuff – still unpacking from the move in February). Nicely flush spring button and joint.

Loom is a little larger diameter than my custom cedar one piece but I think it is the same as the GearLab so that won’t be a problem. It does have a slight shoulder (unlike my other two GPs) but that could be a benefit for some techniques.

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#58

I’ve found GP paddling coach Paulo Oullett’s videos very useful in refining technique. This a short freebie (one has to pay to subscribe to his more lengthy instructions) but it does show very clearly what good and efficient form is with a GP.

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#59

My tip get a Euro :joy:

Only kidding. :scream:

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#60

I have a Euro, two actually. They seem to stay in my garage of late, ever since I got my GPs. :thinking:

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