Hi,
I recently got an NDK Greenlander Pro and really like it. I was looking for something easy to edge and this boat fits the bill nicely.
I am curious about what to expect with this boat in rough conditions. I know that many people say this boat and other Greenland style boats do quite well in rough water.
I am used to paddling soft-chined boats. To me they handle beam seas well and are very “smooth” in these conditions gradually rolling with the beam waves.
I am very curious about how the hard chines, flat sides, and “indexed” stability will act in rough beam seas.
I have had the boat out on some moderatly windy days but have yet to take it out in really big conditions.
My impressions so far are good. Seems to ride up and over waves smoothly when heading into them, surfs like crazy in a following sea. In beam seas it seems like it just is a little looser under you and wants to move a bit more from side to side. Not a big deal…keep your hips loose and it is plenty stable, just not level all the time.
I would be curious to hear what your experience is.
thanks
Matt
A little different
Mostly, in beam seas, you have to paddle a little more aggressively with respect to waves. If one hits you broadside in a hard-chine boat, you may need to brace more often, but it’s no big deal. I find that they’re very capable in big water.
The Greenlander’s bow has a tendency to wander in chop, because the bow is very buoyant. At least compared to my Caribou and my Betsie Bay. I didn’t like that, but as I said, I have two boats that don’t do that, so I’m a little spoiled…
You’ll also find that the Greenlander will be more “precise” in it’s handling because of the chines. Take it into some current, and practice with it. You’ll see what I mean.
Wayne
video clip
http://www.kayakquixotica.com/2007/03/day-on-river-video.html
Here is Derrickam from Pnet working on his hard chined maneuverability in the Valley AA in a river current, as suggested by previous poster.
As Good…
or bad as the driver...
sing
PS. Just because "G-style" boats have two hard chines don't make them homogenous in design and performance. But, regardless, rough water handling is as much (or more) a function of the individual's skills as it is to the variables of a particular boat. Apology to folks who like to have things in "black" and "white."
Some differences…
I’ve noticed between the Caribou and the Nordy in the short windblown breaking waves is that the Bou will hold a more direct line and not sideslip as much. It sort of holds it’s ground in a beam sea and takes the force of the wave sometimes directing the water up at the paddler.
The Nord rises on the face, moves slightly sideways, and settles back down. A looser but less violent encounter.
he does report having an AA
but I believe the white boat in the recent river video is a Romany.
AA?
Are you sure that was AA?
- All three hatches round
- Non ocean cockpit
- No upswept tail
- Chine transitions are sort of soft
Could it be NDK Romany?
I don’t know, actually. Does Derrickam
…have a white ROmany, too. I thought it was blue. Derrick?
Regardless…
the AA does NOT perform like the Greenlander.
sing
ah, yes…
A classic upstream capsize exiting an eddy. Grabbing the high side of the boat with one hand and extending the other hand towards the water isn’t nearly as effective as bracing…
I’ve seen a lot of those in beginning WW class, and certainly did my share when I was learning.
Compare AA to Greenlander?
Sing:
How would you compare the differences? Curious as these are the two FG alternatives to a “Greenland” boat and so often a choice must be made I suspect.
TIA
yes…
Mary just got a white Romany and Derrick’s warhorse is the blue Romany Explorer.
Agree with sing
actual shape of the chine has less to do than the overall shape of the rocker, chine “profile”, and change in the chine profile throughout the hull. Sand the edges to a 1" radius, and it would paddle very similarly, if you could notice at all. Edges are more a function of traditional building materials.
Your Greenlander will paddle well in huge seas. Go have fun
Honestly… I Am Not The One…
to ask about the Greenlander. Besides being big for my size, it's a more "tracky" expedition type boat that I have no interest in. You're better off asking Jed L who has or had one.
The AA is more my type of boat being my rockered for play. About 4 years ago, I lost my interest for this as well. Think about it... It fits Bill G. Last time I borrowed Bill's wetsuit bottom, the friggin thing barely stayed on me it was so big. Good thing I didn't swim 'cause I would have come out bottomless...
sing
all in what you’re used to
I have a standard greenlander. I like the way it performs in rough seas, it’s a bit grabbier and beam seas seem to affect it more than my othe boat, a pintai - which is about as different as you can get, slidier in the water and a bit more forgiving. But I’m used to the greenlander. Love the speed, IME the bow does not wander in chop, and while it’s a bit more to turn in rough seas it’s certainly comfortable, in fact I find it fairly stable.
Ditto what was said about the great variety in hard chined boats, I would never compare the greenlander to the AA or BB aral.
GP
The GP is a spirited filly
Wonderfully fast and steady in nasty stuff
Tricky in following seas
It’s a BIG boat. Livelier when empty, rock steady when loaded for bear. Tracks great on an even keel, turns well on edge, too long for rock work. Long legs, it really sucks up the miles. Holds a ton of gear when touring off-shore.
It covers the long-distance, higher-speed functions in my fleet.
cheers,
Interesting…
Some interesting comments. Thanks.
I would agree that it is a lively boat. I would not agree that it is tricky in a following sea…I think it handles better than any boat I have paddled in this manner. Really surfs, tracks straight on the face of a wave and quickly responds to edging and light rudder to prevent broaching…but again this is in the light conditions in which I have used it so far.
Interestingly enough though…I would also not agree that it is a fast boat. Everyone says that it is fast and I would agree that it feels super fast…but when using my GPS (I always paddle with it on) I have found that it is probably slower than my 16 foot Avocet! Not what I would consider fast for a boat of this length. I will make a separate post about this though as this is fairly surprising and interesting to me.
Salty’s comments about the edges is interesting as well. I understand him to be saying that if I were to round off the hard edges that I would still have a hard chine and would have no effect on handling. Interesting.
I think this will be a lively boat in rough water and will require loose hips. Should be much different from my Aquanaut which was a GREAT rough water boat…probably about the most confidence inspring rough water boat out there. I think the GP will require the paddler to be a little looser in the hips and a little more attentive in rough water. Should be fun though.
My curiousity pertained mostly to the difference in how it would beam waves. I think that some of the comments above do a good job of answering. My Avocet with its rounded chines allow it to slide a bit sideways when in rough water. Think this boat will react a bit differently…probably a bit grabby and pushed around a bit when hit by beam waves due to the very flat sides.
matt
Padder + boat
The same boat is going to feel quite differently to paddlers of different weights and heights.
You Missed The Point…
"Salty's comments about the edges is interesting as well. I understand him to be saying that if I were to round off the hard edges that I would still have a hard chine and would have no effect on handling. Interesting. "
He is comment is that the chines are just one factor among others that determine the performance of the boat. All other things left equal, if you were to round off the Greenlander's chines, salty maintains if would perform almost essentially the same.
From what I am reading, your orginal question is really about what others think of the "Greenlander" and not about G-Style boats in "rough water." The questions are dramtically different.
sing
of course
It is a blast in following seas, I hope I didn’t say otherwise.
I have to disagree regarding speed and my experience vs. the avocet is the opposite of yours. The difference vs. a pintail is much more significant. But njkayaker makes a great point that the “motor” also makes a difference.