Natural Wonder you got it right
As a retailer who’s focus is on customer service I have become very intolerant of poor service. Last time I went to my local paddle shop to buy a neoprene skirt the pierced “kid” couldn’t help me. I gave the cockpit dimensions and he fumbled around finally picking up a skirt and said “this will probably fit”. I went home and ordered one from NRS. I have no problem with someone taking their business elsewhere if they don’t get good service. That is the one area the independents can beat the big box boys and that is the one area that will keep people coming back. If he’s not smart enough to see that then bad for him. If you’re an independent and you offer poor service to your customers you don’t deserve their business. A customer honors me by coming into my store and he is the reason I’m in business. I’m going to do my upmost to please him and keep him happy no matter what. But if he wants a discount…sorry. I in no way am defending poor customer service, I have no tolerance for it. And I did not intend to imply you’re automatically going to get good service simply by visiting an independent. That independent has to offer good service, something that is virtually non-existent in the big box discount stores. At least the ones in my area.
price?
i usually ask for a price on most everything if i think the seller is in a position to move on the number. i’m not a hardass about it, and try to keep it friendly at all times. sometimes they say yes and sometimes they say no. but you would be surprised at the number of times they say yes. be serious, if you’re a prospect not a suspect, you have a much better chance on a deal. tirekickers get zip-you say you’ll never go back and they hope you’ll never come back.
It’s not haggling
if you do your homework.
Find out all you can about the boat that you want.
Find out all you can about similar boats.
What are the price differences between similar boats?
What are the price differences between dealers?
Do performance or aesthetic characteristics justify the differences?
Who will include shipping charges?
What are the services offered by the various dealers?
Are there any special sales or other programs?
Is there a dealer who has gone the extra mile, such as setting up a demo paddle that another would not?
etc.
etc.
Now you are informed and you are knowledgable.
Now you are not "haggling."
Some dealers deserve full price
Last December, I was looking to purchase a new boat. I drove 200 miles to a “local” dealer who has known me for several years. Although the owner was not there when I got there, she had left instructions with her staff, that I was to be given any boat I wanted for as long as I wanted to demo it and that I was not to be restricted to paddling in the bay only.
We had high surf advisories that day and conditions were some of the roughest I have ever paddled in. I used two different boats for the entire day - and I was not charged for a rental and I was not paddling in what would normally be considered “demo” type conditions.
I did order one of those boats from the dealer and I paid full price. However, without my even asking, she told me that she was giving me a break on the compass that she was going to install on the boat and also discount on the new skirt I was purchasing because none of my skirts fit the new boat.
It’s service like this that makes me order from her everytime I need something.
PS - The shop is Aqua Adventures in San Diego, CA and the owner is Jennifer Kleck.
DID YOU DEMO HIS BOATS?
I think its short sighted to haggle TOO MUCH. Its one thing to bring it up, but to persist is worthy of seeing the door.
Did he take an employee off his sales floor to load boats and gear and run down to the water to demo a few different boats for you, to share some expertise and help you critique the different boats? Load it all back up put it away and spend another hour reviewing and helping you with your decisions? Will they be there in the future for you with to spend another hour talking about which $40 paddle float to buy? Compare, explain, and demonstrate for you hands on the differences between the brands of gear? Will he keep the shop staffed even during the slow times just incase you want to come in and talk kayaking without making so much as a nose plug purchase? You know what the shop is asking for the boat and the service, then they uphold their part of the deal by giving good service and selection. Then at the end of the day its your turn and you want to haggle, many shop owners feel insulted becasue you knew the price at the begining of the day. They just put out an honest effort to help you and demonstrated their expertise and you treat them like used car salesmen.
The Mom and Pop kayak shops were awesome, they are on the endangered species list. One of the main reasons I got out of the industry. It used to be all boaters doing it for the love, and the customers easily caught the enthusiasm. Then one day at a Mad River Canoe dealer camp, Kay Henry introduced us to her new CEO from Harvard, and we were going to teach him how to canoe that day. Now its all box stores and kayak depots and a guy infront of his computer in Hood River telling corporate suppliers where to drop ship the gear he just sold to a guy he's never gonna see, let alone paddle with.
The shop owner has done all the work and paid to have the goods up front for you to paddle, to hold, to fit in, to judge the materials, fit, and finnish for yourself. No small undertaking. Quite an investment actually. Now you haggle and threaten to take the purchase decision he just helped you make to a complete stranger on the internet. (Warning, "R" rated implication in next sentence, please cover your eyes if you are sensitive to extreme language) In some places they call that "taking it in the a**".
It comes down to this; is the relationship more important or is the almighty dollar? Only you can answer that.
I just had a local bike shop build me three different sizes of the same bike, demoed them all and they helped me choose the proper fit, (actually not as easy as it sounds). I know the owner fairly well. He knocked off $300 without me even bringing it up. I laid down 30 one hundred dollar bills and said, "thats awesome, but don't feel like you have to". I've built up a great relationship with them over the years and that is yet another way they want to show their appreciation.
Think it depends
There’s 3 major players (that I know of anyway)here in the western new york area.
The gal down near Jamestown NY is always willing to deal and sends e-mail flyers at least once a month on discounted boats and merchandise.
The guy closest to me…I never hear about discounts or deals or scratch & dent bargins (even though he’s an outfitter)
The one nearer Rochester NY may offer deals but ya gotta go talk to em first.
As for price on a rotomold kayak…I’m expecting it went way up given the cost of oil etc…
That said…I’d wait till your dealer puts the going out of business sign on his door and then make him an offer.
Perfect example
You, my friend, are a valued customer. You speak highly of the dealer, but her actions also speak volumes of the relationship between customer and dealer that you both have built. Thats why, 1500 miles away, I now know who she is and how well she treats her good customers.
Happy paddling.
There’s nothing like a GOOD paddling
shop.
A friend of mine who lives even further from San Diego than I did, broke a $400 carbon paddle one day.
Three of us had launched and as we exited the harbor entrance, all of us got clobbered by a breaking wave that was unexpected.
His roll failed and after he was up and in the boat, we found that one of the blades on his paddle came off and was missing. That’s why the roll failed.
He originally thought that he had failed to tighten the blade properly, but upon looking at the shaft closer, we found the shaft had atually broken off.
My friend contacted the manufacturer, who, without looking at the paddle said no - their shafts don’t snap unless mistreated.
When our friendly kayak shop owner was told about this, she said she would try as she has more clout than an end user.
Jen explained that she knew the paddler well and if he said he wasn’t surfing with it or rock gardening, that was good enough for her. The company agreed that the paddle shouldn’t have broken from a wave causing a capsize and a roll attempt or two.
They replaced the shaft and the missing blade at no charge.
Again, it’s service like that, that is worth paying a couple of dollars more for than trying to see how cheap you can find something on line, or haggling with the dealer until they aren’t making any money.
Excellent Post
This is a really good description of the upfront costs and year-round overhead the dealer must pay for in order to provide the customer with the good service that’s expected of a good shop, as well as the attitude that the shop owner is bound to have when some selfish cheapskate tries to take undo advantage of such service. I’d bet anything that the original poster never thought of any of these issues, and I think it’s easy for many of the rest of us fail to consider this stuff too at times. Thanks.