@Rex said:
A buddy of mine manages a sporting goods store. He’s selling lots of fishing kayaks; no touring/sea kayaks.
I don’t think that is unusual these days. Last year at Canoecopia (2017), I was joking with a rep from Jackson Kayaks asking him why he had zero whitewater boats on display, when Jackson was for many years primarily a whitewater company. His response was that any new whitewater boat they sell these days was basically paid for by the kayak fishing market. They were making almost no profit from the ww segment the last few years, and most of their whitewater r&d and production costs were being subsidized by the fishing market. My guess is that if EJ weren’t a 4 time world whitewater freestyle champion, they’d probably drop their ww line in favor of their more lucrative fishing kayaks. I think that would probably apply to some of the touring/sea kayak production as well.
While long time paddling magazines are continuing to go out of print, there are multiple SUP magazines on the newsstands, as well as “Kayak Angler”. I don’t see this overall trend towards these boats as necessarily a bad thing, because the net result is that a lot of people are still getting out on the water, which in the long run should help protect and preserve many of the places that we like to paddle. I’ve been a canoer/C1er since the early 80s, but I’ve now got a SUP hanging in the shop with my other boats.
There is always one paddler on a SUP on the Kenduskeag Race. They invariably wipe out at Six Mile Falls but its easy to get back on and continue for those of an age who don’t worry about I’ve fallen and can’t get up. Me. I need a milk crate.There are now sit down and stand up boards. They have seats.
Good point, RJ! And I have been finding that shops, especially in tourism areas that I have visited in the last couple of years, have been switching their stock from kayaks to SUP’s and will often sell off both kayaks and kayak-specific accessories left over to anyone who makes an offer. I bought several high-end spray skirts a few years ago (Kokatat, Seals, Snapdragon), kept one and sold the others for a net profit of $60. Also snagged a bunch of $30 to $50 flotation bags for $10 each.
I like seeing SUPs out where I paddle, too. For one thing they are more visible than those of us in kayaks so they grab the attention of power boaters and lake lice (PWC’s) more readily who are more apt to give them wider berth. Also it is more fun watching them fall off than watching people in rec boats capsize (the latter makes me feel guilty for not helping them flounder back to shore.)
@Medawgone said:
I just returned from the Charleston Outdoor Festival. It is definitely NOT the East Coast Canoe and Kayak Festival, any more. The event lost it’s way, a few years ago. I do not expect the festival to survive, another 5 years. They tried to re-invent festival ~5 years ago, and ruined it. They tried to bring in other venues, like archery, mountain biking, frisbee golf and outdoor games stuff. They did that, to appeal to casuals and millennials. But they drove away their base customer. As the crowds have gotten smaller , the vendors have disappeared. To compensate for lost revenue, they have raised the prices on vendors and festival admission. This resulted in even fewer vendors and paddlers.
There where only two vendors with sea kayaks. Sea Kayak Carolina had P&H and NDK kayaks. Current Designs had the other sea kayaks . Even EPIC skipped the festival. (EPIC USA is based in Charleston). The other big paddle companies had SOTs, Rec boats and fishing kayaks. They where represented by Bonafide, Hobie, Jackson and Wilderness Systems. There where a couple start up companies as well. That was basically it.
I agree. We went Saturday and I tried out a nice rec boat from CD (13’ Vision) and a beautiful Romany from Sea Kayak Carolina, but the rest were fishing boats and SUPs that I had no interest in. I was surprised as well that local company Epic was a no-show. This was the first year in a long time we hadn’t camped there over the weekend. One thing that may have affected the camp/festival crowd was that both campground bathrooms were being renovated and were closed. But yes, the festival has indeed changed and I fear it will die off in a few years.
I see the Charleston Outdoor Festival, moving away from the festival format. It has jumped the shark. It is no long cost effective, for James Island Park or the various vendors. If it survives at all, it may go to strictly a paddling symposium format. Just offer classes and phase-out the rest. The casuals and millennials will hardly notice.
@rival51 said:
I did see a trailer full of new Epics heading north on M115 as I was coming back from the Manistee. They may have been heading for Traverse City.
Am betting they’re going to TC Surfski in Suttons Bay. Nick Murray has done a super job building his business and getting more people on the water (in skis). He also has a darned good podcast series on his site: http://tcsurfski.com/
Every day I look out the back and see crab boats, jet skis and recreational kayaks. I think kayaking is still in fashion. I think expedition kayaking is a little less in style for the masses. Yet I know there are plenty of Water Tribers and CT (Fla Circumnavigation Trail) paddlers doing just that.
Paddle sports in general are doing fine. Check out the increase in incidents or deaths each spring…
Getting training to do things like sea kayaking well has condensed. Many of us who were willing to spend a fair amount of bucks on training a decade or so ago got enough to feel OK for our current and older age paddling activities. I will go out and get my roll back and spend time climbing around my boat as warmer weather arrives , but spending a few hundred bucks to push my envelope in nasty conditions is probably outside of my interest range now. At the most if I feel compelled I will look at a weekend ACA program rather than the more laborious process inherited from the BCU. I was one who was caught in the mess from the 2007 changes. While I understand that the PNA/BCU has since gone back to a more practical version of their sea kayaking program, I got too annoyed to give them money again. At the time I met others who ran into the same issue, mostly women at least in the NE…
BUT- paddling that does not seem to require special skills is doing fine. Rec boats, paddle boards in warmer climates, fishing kayaks are still moving. Note the “seem to” part of the above before you jump on me about safety…
Two trends in sea kayaking are interesting, reflecting some condensation. The boats are lot less quirky than they were 10 and 15 years ago, designs have been tamed to a middle of the road personality. No more Sirius type designs from P&H for example. And NDK recently announced they are dropping having two smaller versions in the Pilgrim line, instead are replacing both the shorter and longer LV versions with a single 16’7" low volume boat.
From prior posts in this thread, this is clearly a complicated issue. So I’ll just add a few more data points. I belong to two kayak meetups, one in Nanaimo, BC and the other in the North Idaho & northeastern Washington area.
The Nanaimo meetup has roughly 250 members and grew out of a still active club, which added the meetup capability several years ago. The club is more active now than ever, both in the colder and warmer months. Everything from camping trips to lodge based trips to day trips. Skills sessions, rolling sessions, safety sessions, and trip planning courses are available as well. Sea kayaks are the common boat. The club is old enough so that there were still a few sea kayaks among the members. These may have disappeared. The meetup is quite mature and gets occasional tweaks, but is quite efficient in its role. The meetup is operated by the club, which has the usual set of club officers etc. The meetup has a set of event organizers who can spawn trips.
The Selkirk meetup (North Idaho & northeastern Washington area) grew from zero to ~135 members in just a few years. The members mostly have sea kayaks, tending to be shorter than those owned by the Nanaimo meetup – and even a few rec kayaks. People with the rec kayaks tend to move to sea kayaks. This meetup has been inactive in the colder months, but is increasingly active in the warmer months. Occasional safety sessions are available. Day trips are the usual fare, but trips to the San Juans (Washington) and some of the waters off Vancouver Island also occur. Some of the participants in the latter trips are going to the ocean for the first time. As a new meetup with no club underpinnings, this club is evolving rapidly e.g. just adding waivers. This meetup is operated mostly by one person, but has a set of event organizers who can spawn trips.
My own participation in these meetups is infrequent, although I enjoy them. Most of my day trips, rolling and safety sessions, and ocean trips are self inflicted. Since I live near the largest lake in Idaho I am reluctant to travel to other lakes in the vicinity unless they are nearby (under 2 hours round trip?). Trips to the ocean are generally with friends who don’t necessarily belong to either meetup.
I belong to a sizeable meet up group also. We have up to 20 people on many trips.
Since I am physically limited to boats my back will tolerate, I am the organizer for our growing rec boat contingent. I get the beginners and seniors and we have a good time. And I can put paddle most of them.
And quite a few are young women.
Not that either of those are that important.
Speaking of meetups, I have tried a couple of them. Saying that there is a range of skills and training usually is putting it mildly. I learned not to go on any in Maine without all my rescue gear and in a boat that was my best rescue platform.
Local paddling groups here on inland rivers and small lakes continue to do well. But no more than half of these folks are likely to head out into the ocean two miles to a small island for lunch, if that. Because of having regular weekly paddles, there has been a successful resurgence of paddle leaders getting rescue training. But this is not the same as the more intensive sea or white water kayaking training.
Speaking of whitewater, my husband and I started noticing changes probably 10 or so years ago when we were doing more of that. When we were on popular places like the Deerfield where Zoar does their classes, the only young people in a beginner class were the instructors. Those taking the class were largely older folks, a lot in their 50’s, and forget the play boats. They were all in creekers.
The divide is not paddling, but the level of preparation that people want to put into it. In general I see more opting for reducing their risk rather than stretching for more. I can hardly criticize. Since I am usually a solo paddler these days when I am on the ocean, I leave much wider safety margins in terms of destinations and head room in a boat than I used to. I stretch it some when I find the right company, but alone I have to be a lot more sensible. One huge example, if I go out to see the seals hauled out at low tide I choose a time when I will be back by about 10am. Jim and I used to have a big breakfast then make it out just about when the offshore winds and the exchange at the river mouth were starting to ramp up.
Speaking of whitewater, my husband and I started noticing changes probably 10 or so years ago when we were doing more of that. When we were on popular places like the Deerfield where Zoar does their classes, the only young people in a beginner class were the instructors. Those taking the class were largely older folks, a lot in their 50’s, and forget the play boats. They were all in creekers.
The young kids don’t take classes – they just hook up with a friend and go. Amazing how fast they move up to tougher runs.
I am speaking for the meetups I have been on. Personal experience. Unclear why you think I would be speaking for the entire state.
I am not necessarily talking about dumps. I have only tried a few meetups in the midcoast region, they tend to be more numerous two hours south or north of me. But editing out the details, I have yet to be on one going offshore when some amount of rescue equipment did not need to come out. And was generally in very light supply in the group against the total paddlers.
If I find myself hooking up with a meetup during my time in Maine that does not have this kind of stuff, I will keep track of that group. So far it has not happened. I am not the only person, at least in the midcoast region, who has found the meetups to be an unpredictable experience. I usually meet up with a paddler I have known for over a decade who moved to midcoast from New Hampshire a couple of times when I am in Maine. My friend has experienced the same kind of erratic issues.
If things are operating in a more consistent manner up by Sebago that’s great. That’s over two hours from me. But for Muscongus and environs, until I find a meetup that operates in a more consistent fashion I will continue to bring all my rescue stuff and a boat that is a good rescue platform.
Our local club has morphed into a meetup type group as the serious sea kayakers moved on. We used to know everyone and their skill level. “Paddlers” now come out of the woodwork with little or no experience and clueless as to safety gear and conditions. Any helpful suggestions are taken as insults.
After the last meetup turned scary in challenging conditions I am avoiding these groups like the plague and paddling alone or with people I know.
The new generation is very sensitive to comments or corrections but I give them anyway. It seems my generation could care less of their emotional reactions.
@DrowningDave said:
The new generation is very sensitive to comments or corrections but I give them anyway. It seems my generation could care less of their emotional reactions.
Guess everything they need to know is on their phone…