@Sparky961 said:
I’ve seen lots of both - cart trails and bushwacking/mudslogging. One reason I’d not like to see them allowed in remote locations is that while few people tend to abandon their boat, lots of people feel it’s acceptable to abandon their cart when it breaks. I have seen plenty of broken down wheeled contraptions along trails, down in ravines, and half in the water. And yes, I’ve sighted a few boats too, but not near as many.
As far as I’m concerned, if the portage is so flat that a cart can be used, it’s too inviting for the people that probably shouldn’t be there in the first place. This is an indication that civilization has crept too far into my wilderness and it’s time to go farther away.
Then bottled and canned drinks should be forbidden, too. Lots of slobs toss those on the ground or in the water instead of carrying out with them.
@kayamedic said:
then you have not gone up the many stairs around Raquette Falls
“The dreaded stairs at Raquette Falls…”
All this racket about Raquette. Be thankful there are stairs. Admittedly, I’ve never portaged a canoe up them–That’s because I’ve always used a small whitewater play yak/inflatable kayak for the past 16 years. (I regularly paddled a canoe before this, having portaged one very heavy Great Canadian fiberglass boat for years.) And beside, there are 67 other runs in the Adirondacks that are much more appealing to me these days, then anything provided around Potsdam, St. Regis, the Fulton chain, or any of the other more popular tourist destinations… I had to go back two computers ago to find this pre-digital age pic of me taken below the Upper Jamestown falls by my friend,the late great Dennis Squires(author of “New York Exposed, The Whitewater State” ) --I still contend there is no glory in lugging ANYTHING up anywhere, unless one’s life depends upon it…But again, I’d always rather paddle than portage.Happy water trails.
@pikabike said:
Then bottled and canned drinks should be forbidden, too. Lots of slobs toss those on the ground or in the water instead of carrying out with them.
Absolutely right, and had to be done on Juniper Springs Run in FL. So much trash from people left on the banks and in the water that the USFS banned all containers/packaging that was considered disposable. No zipock bags, snacks in wrapers or can and bottle beverages. You have to use things like Tupperware and Nalgene water bottles for snacks and drinks. They have someone at the put in to check.
@pikabike said:
Then bottled and canned drinks should be forbidden, too. Lots of slobs toss those on the ground or in the water instead of carrying out with them.
@spiritboat said:
Jerks are jerks. The same people who purposefully leave a boat/cart behind also leave their camp garbage. They can’t be included in “civilization” with the rest of us(PS-It’s also an indication it’s only “your wilderness” until the next place it happens .
Most provincial and national parks do have a can & bottle ban, and have for just about as long as I can remember. It doesn’t apply for crown land though. Pretty much as long as what you’re doing isn’t illegal, you are free to do whatever you want - regardless of how unethical it may be. I suppose dumping garbage is illegal though, just that no one in that situation will ever be caught.
I think the carts stick out in my mind owing to the size and weight, and thus the difficulty to pack out someone else’s garbage like I often do.
@pikabike said:
Then bottled and canned drinks should be forbidden, too. Lots of slobs toss those on the ground or in the water instead of carrying out with them.
Absolutely right, and had to be done on Juniper Springs Run in FL. So much trash from people left on the banks and in the water that the USFS banned all containers/packaging that was considered disposable. No zipock bags, snacks in wrapers or can and bottle beverages. You have to use things like Tupperware and Nalgene water bottles for snacks and drinks. They have someone at the put in to check.
You can add the Ichetucknee river, and likely the Rainbow River to the Florida list of non disposable containers. They should add the Santa Fe River. It’s terrible downstream of those private camp grounds that the college kids frequent. Lots of beer cans on the bottom.
@Overstreet said:
…So we had to carry kayaks, camping gear and our selves a 1/4 mile up hill to the parking lot. That was the last time I didn’t take the kayak cart in the truck. "
1/4 mile? Lawd, I don’t know how you folks in the Sunshine State survive it.
As to portaging during the Water Tribe events: For what they charge in entry fees, it’s nice that they allow carts.
I have trouble connecting with the whole portage scene. It seems to be a big thing up north where y’all paddle. Here I can “portage” from the garage to the bulkhead, 250 feet, launch and not need to portage again for 270 miles. I can go downstream 30 miles turn right and paddle 1500 miles to Pensacola without portaging. Of course that ain’t gonna happen…this summer any way. Our biggest portages are from the water to the parking lot or from low tide to above the high tide line. We are blessed with water that connects to other water. Of course remember that when we are carrying our little “short distances” it is likely in the upper 90s and 98% humidity. :s
Those boats of GBG need downhill portages at the end of the day… We have some lovely ADK eskers but man its e> @spiritboat said:
@kayamedic said:
then you have not gone up the many stairs around Raquette Falls or the portage up the brook between Lila and the railroad tracks nor the slog through Hardigan pond. Nor the Mud Pond Carry… Nor done some neat bushwhacking with a pack canoe in the Adirondacks. I have been paddling there for fifty years on and off… Have you? If so I would love to hear of your experiences. Maybe I should try that trail with a cart between the two halves of the Osgood River ( I haven’t). The trouble with carts in the Adirondacks is that while there are entire trails that support a cart, there are trails that only do for a bit and others that don’t at all.
Temagami and Wabakimi have cliffs that you have to rope over and the latter has lots of long boggy portages; the ecology is unfriendly to carts. Same for Algonquin… Some of the paths have bog bridging that is narrower than a cart is wide or there are simply too many rocks and roots so that carrying the canoe on your shoulders is far easier.
I think you do need a packraft.
I have no idea why a canoe on your head in “serious” bear country is an issue… I have seen bears while portaging a canoe several times in Canada. Same in Maine. Once a bear came out of the creek alongside the trail not having sensed me and found itself befuddled by the bow of the boat. And fled.
Wow! Im so glad you’re here to tell me what I have or haven’t done! My experiences? Well, let me see: I live in New York State and own property in both the Catskills and the Adirondacks. I was with Outward Bound in the 70s, and I was also in the Navy…And there was this girl once in Philadelphia…Oh never mind. I clearly can’t compete with you!! I’m just not a bona fide glutton for portaging punishment.
As to bear country, I live in it–sometimes I don’t even have to get in a canoe! Some mornings i find black bear right outside my house. One recently tore off the siding on my neighbor’s garage just to get at his garbage.–Now polar and grizzlies, that’s what I mean by “serious” bear country. Not Algonquin, not Maine. Have you “shoo’d” one of them up close and personal from your canoe? Don’t hold back, Nature Channel may want to phone.
–And I think I will get a packraft, any boat that pisses off a canoe snob has to be good…
Uh yeah I have had griz in camp. It was a question. Sorry you took it as a snub. It was a blackie under the bow of the canoe I was carrying… Remember the old days of the Indian Lake dump?
I have done “short” portages enough in my life. 2 blocks, twice a week. Worse was a mile hike for a river run with a ww boat on my shoulder. Now, passing middle aged, I use a cart to cross the parking lot (joking, but local run has the road blocked off-state supports the paddle trail, community does not. It’s 2 blocks again, so I paddle with a cart. Waiting for the local police to stop me from going arround the city’s barricade to the paddling trail.
@pikabike said:
Then bottled and canned drinks should be forbidden, too. Lots of slobs toss those on the ground or in the water instead of carrying out with them.
Absolutely right, and had to be done on Juniper Springs Run in FL. So much trash from people left on the banks and in the water that the USFS banned all containers/packaging that was considered disposable. No zipock bags, snacks in wrapers or can and bottle beverages. You have to use things like Tupperware and Nalgene water bottles for snacks and drinks. They have someone at the put in to check.
You can add the Ichetucknee river, and likely the Rainbow River to the Florida list of non disposable containers. They should add the Santa Fe River. It’s terrible downstream of those private camp grounds that the college kids frequent. Lots of beer cans on the bottom.
I thought the Rainbow already banned them. When we sent there in 2003 we were told to use nondisposable containers.
for sure there are some neat places that aren’t cartable, however I did find I could cart 2/3rds of the raquette falls carry. Never used carts in maine but that’s not to say it couldn’t be done in some spots. I have gotten good at cutting the portages down- eddying out above big drops, lining, carrying just the gear and such. Portaging pretty much sucks in my book. One of the appealling things about the Northern Forest Canoe Trail is that most of it is cartable. Sometimes I resort to dragging my poly kayaks. Never met a portage i liked. if one set of wheels is good, two is better
The extra pair of wheels is a convenient option but often the undeveloped terrain of our woodlands won’t permit cart usage. Many ponds & bogs, that are off the main roads, will have no formal trails…but often those places turn out to be the really enjoyable places to paddle. The pads that hook up to the thwart(s) are nice, as is strapping on a pack snugly and using it when one doesn’t have thwart pads. I think you’d be quite surprised at how a pair of QB’s shoulder pads will greatly soften and thereby lighten a plain thwart’s impact on your shoulders. Certainly agree with Guideboatguy’s assessment…
the Mad River canoe in the above photo has a fixed center seat that precludes it being carried in the normal overhead manner. Either you double carry, drag it, or use a cart. The man is solving a heavy problem and enjoying the woods. may all his trails be ide and smooth enough to cart his canoe.
Bill
I understand the parks trying to limit access to attempt to preserve a resource. I also recognize base rules to prevent incremental changes. That said, when the rules prevent access to people with physical limitations, bet they will eventually be circumvented. Just as tons of people have registered companion pets so they can fly with their dogs, I bet there eventually will be a market for a self propelled kayak carts (already is, but side by sides do not fit on most park trails)
Geography prevents carts. No amount of accessibility rules are going to change Canadian parks to accommodate carts. Save for Bowron where some sorts of carts work
You can try a cart and people have. The wreckage is occasionally left by the path.
I understand that most on this board do not take paddle and hike trips like found in Ontario Manitoba and Quebec
And the BWCA prohibits carts
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