I’m sure this topic might make a few olden day French Canadian Voyageurs “roll” in their graves…I just read Cliff Jacobson’s p.com article on the use of tumplines. I like CJ’s books and respect his wealth of paddling expedition experience. But I can’t find any reason to bother with either tumplines, or installing such things as carrying yoke pads on my canoe–Or even to ever again bother with lifting a canoe/kayak above my shoulders for that matter(Except of course, to car top one.)
The last thing I want to do during or at the end of any paddling day while on a multi-day expedition( or even a day trip)is unload my boat of its gear, lift it above my head, and then schlep it. (Okay, so maybe there’s an impossible amount of rocks on a very steep slope, then I might not have much choice.) But generally these days, I’ve found my collapsible cart can take on even brush-filled trails with relative ease. Who prefers to still “grunt and bear it.?” (And don’t tell me about your 12 lb. high-end boat making it all just a breeze.) Maybe it’s part of my advancing age, but I’ll gladly sacrifice on-board stow space and take wheeling over lifting any day.
I still haul my 60 lb kayak on one shoulder, but I’m also a big guy. I’m not ready for a cart quite yet.
Of course, I scoffed at people’s folding chairs once upon a time too… I do like my Helinox ground chair.
I despise portaging. None of my boats are conducive to carrying any distance through varied terrain. The last portage I did required carrying 17’ kayak about 200 yards, but first unloading a weeks worth of gear and food and making trips back and forth, then doing it again on the return trip. Portage was on the French River (Ont.) to Georgian Bay. Portage was done to avoid the rapids in the main channel,
@Andy_Szymczak said:
I despise portaging. None of my boats are conducive to carrying any distance through varied terrain. The last portage I did required carrying 17’ kayak about 200 yards, but first unloading a weeks worth of gear and food and making trips back and forth, then doing it again on the return trip. Portage was on the French River (Ont.) to Georgian Bay. Portage was done to avoid the rapids in the main channel,
Was that the Dulles Rapid portage? I did that once with a canoe, never in a kayak. It was early in the season and I ended up having to clear a fallen tree from the trail so we could get through without too much trouble.
If I’m headed through there with a kayak now I’ll take the route through Bass Lake. There used to be a boardwalk but they changed the route a few years ago and now it’s a small lift over, short paddle down a narrow channel, then maybe 50m or so carry before the bay (heading south). The worst part of that portage is the stupid dock they put with huge railings that really get in the way. You’ll know what I mean if you’re ever there. Next time I go I probably wouldn’t leave from Hartley Bay Marina anyway, as I have a severe hate for the place. I’d go out the Key River. No portaging on that route, and I’m with you in the general avoidance of portaging with kayaks when possible.
Sorry to digress…
Bass lake Portage, wooden board walk was in place but some parts missing.
I can’t apply much of my own experience to answering your question, but Bill Mason, who I would guess did about as much portaging in cart-unfriendly country as anyone, said something to the effect of “Anyone who says they don’t mind portaging is a liar.” The one thing I can say about the cart / no-cart issue is that in wilderness areas, anything that uses wheels is not allowed. Funny thing that a modern boat made from space-age materials is okay in the “wilderness”, but a pair of crude bicycle wheels is not. The other thing I know is that most of my boats are considerably heavier at the end of the day than at the beginning, and being the science-oriented geek that I am, this has me stumped.
In the Boundary Waters carts are not permitted. In the Adirondacks some of the trails are not cartable. In Maine Id guess about half of the trails are not cartable . In Alonquin and Temagami almost all of the trails are anathema to carts. Same for Woodland Caribou and Wabakimi.
In the BWCA its a rule probably to reduce impact on trails. In Bowron Lakes BC they do allow carts with less than 60 lbs gear in the canoe and state that it is to preserve the treadway
Same reason mountain bikes are not permitted on hiking trails here.
The rest of the examples of uncartable areas is due to rough terrain or steep ascents or descents or paths less than a cart wide ( which is usual)
@Guideboatguy said:
The other thing I know is that most of my boats are considerably heavier at the end of the day than at the beginning, and being the science-oriented geek that I am, this has me stumped.
It has me stumped too, but it’s really axiomatic: Gravity sucks.
@kayamedic said:
In the Boundary Waters carts are not permitted. In the Adirondacks some of the trails are not cartable. In Maine Id guess about half of the trails are not cartable . In Alonquin and Temagami almost all of the trails are anathema to carts. Same for Woodland Caribou and Wabakimi.
In the BWCA its a rule probably to reduce impact on trails. In Bowron Lakes BC they do allow carts with less than 60 lbs gear in the canoe and state that it is to preserve the treadway
Same reason mountain bikes are not permitted on hiking trails here.
The rest of the examples of uncartable areas is due to rough terrain or steep ascents or descents or paths less than a cart wide ( which is usual)
Haven’t paddled the Boundary Waters. In the 'dacks, I’ve yet to find any trails not cartable. Also while hiking, I’ve seen people there with canoe carts where they shouldn’t be. It sounds like BC at least has a little common sense. Mountain bikes make quick stops and peel outs. So I can somewhat understand prevention against damage done. But a laden canoe at walking pace on trails already broken? And who wants a canoe atop their head in serious bear country? I think I’d rather take my chances with fines, rangers or Mountees. “The woods are filled with wardens.” -Jack Kerouac
Lately, I’m seriously thinking about selling my boats and switching to pack rafts.
You guys don’t access the time space continuum to teleport those heavy boats? Ha! rookies…
then you have not gone up the many stairs around Raquette Falls or the portage up the brook between Lila and the railroad tracks nor the slog through Hardigan pond. Nor the Mud Pond Carry… Nor done some neat bushwhacking with a pack canoe in the Adirondacks. I have been paddling there for fifty years on and off… Have you? If so I would love to hear of your experiences. Maybe I should try that trail with a cart between the two halves of the Osgood River ( I haven’t). The trouble with carts in the Adirondacks is that while there are entire trails that support a cart, there are trails that only do for a bit and others that don’t at all.
Temagami and Wabakimi have cliffs that you have to rope over and the latter has lots of long boggy portages; the ecology is unfriendly to carts. Same for Algonquin… Some of the paths have bog bridging that is narrower than a cart is wide or there are simply too many rocks and roots so that carrying the canoe on your shoulders is far easier.
I think you do need a packraft.
I have no idea why a canoe on your head in “serious” bear country is an issue… I have seen bears while portaging a canoe several times in Canada. Same in Maine. Once a bear came out of the creek alongside the trail not having sensed me and found itself befuddled by the bow of the boat. And fled.
@Guideboatguy said:
… The other thing I know is that most of my boats are considerably heavier at the end of the day than at the beginning, and being the science-oriented geek that I am, this has me stumped.
Universal observation especially if there is a lift to the top of the vehicle.
Down here, Florida, portages are mostly to and from the vehicle. There was a paddle organized by others that included take out at a Wekevia Springs State park. The park allows the contractor to take his vehicle down to the launch, but not the public. So we had to carry kayaks, camping gear and our selves a 1/4 mile up hill to the parking lot. That was the last time I didn’t take the kayak cart in the truck.
There is a Water Tribe event, race around Florida, that includes a 40 mile portage from the St Marys River to the Suwannee River. They allow carts.
@Guideboatguy said:
The other thing I know is that most of my boats are considerably heavier at the end of the day than at the beginning, and being the science-oriented geek that I am, this has me stumped.
@spiritboat said:
It has me stumped too, but it’s really axiomatic: Gravity sucks.
It’s all physics, see: As the earth rotates and dusk arrives, the curl of the luminance gradient in the terminator with the gravitational potential field results in a progressive increase in the magnitude of the local gravity vector, so your boat does in fact get heavier. The opposite effect apparently happens at dawn, but I’m always asleep then, so have never noticed.
The altered gravity vector goes on to interact with the local coriolis vector during the course of the day, causing a well-known secondary effect, in which the wind continuously changes tack to oppose a kayak’s forward progress at all times of day. I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of this, which this post is too narrow to contain.
@kayamedic said:
then you have not gone up the many stairs around Raquette Falls or the portage up the brook between Lila and the railroad tracks nor the slog through Hardigan pond. Nor the Mud Pond Carry… Nor done some neat bushwhacking with a pack canoe in the Adirondacks. I have been paddling there for fifty years on and off… Have you? If so I would love to hear of your experiences. Maybe I should try that trail with a cart between the two halves of the Osgood River ( I haven’t). The trouble with carts in the Adirondacks is that while there are entire trails that support a cart, there are trails that only do for a bit and others that don’t at all.
Temagami and Wabakimi have cliffs that you have to rope over and the latter has lots of long boggy portages; the ecology is unfriendly to carts. Same for Algonquin… Some of the paths have bog bridging that is narrower than a cart is wide or there are simply too many rocks and roots so that carrying the canoe on your shoulders is far easier.
I think you do need a packraft.
I have no idea why a canoe on your head in “serious” bear country is an issue… I have seen bears while portaging a canoe several times in Canada. Same in Maine. Once a bear came out of the creek alongside the trail not having sensed me and found itself befuddled by the bow of the boat. And fled.
Wow! Im so glad you’re here to tell me what I have or haven’t done! My experiences? Well, let me see: I live in New York State and own property in both the Catskills and the Adirondacks. I was with Outward Bound in the 70s, and I was also in the Navy…And there was this girl once in Philadelphia…Oh never mind. I clearly can’t compete with you!! I’m just not a bona fide glutton for portaging punishment.
As to bear country, I live in it–sometimes I don’t even have to get in a canoe! Some mornings i find black bear right outside my house. One recently tore off the siding on my neighbor’s garage just to get at his garbage.–Now polar and grizzlies, that’s what I mean by “serious” bear country. Not Algonquin, not Maine. Have you “shoo’d” one of them up close and personal from your canoe? Don’t hold back, Nature Channel may want to phone.
–And I think I will get a packraft, any boat that pisses off a canoe snob has to be good…
@Overstreet said:
…So we had to carry kayaks, camping gear and our selves a 1/4 mile up hill to the parking lot. That was the last time I didn’t take the kayak cart in the truck. "
1/4 mile? Lawd, I don’t know how you folks in the Sunshine State survive it. 
As to portaging during the Water Tribe events: For what they charge in entry fees, it’s nice that they allow carts.
@carldelo said:
It’s all physics, see:…etc.,"
And here I thought it was just because my arms got tired.
I’ve seen lots of both - cart trails and bushwacking/mudslogging. One reason I’d not like to see them allowed in remote locations is that while few people tend to abandon their boat, lots of people feel it’s acceptable to abandon their cart when it breaks. I have seen plenty of broken down wheeled contraptions along trails, down in ravines, and half in the water. And yes, I’ve sighted a few boats too, but not near as many.
As far as I’m concerned, if the portage is so flat that a cart can be used, it’s too inviting for the people that probably shouldn’t be there in the first place. This is an indication that civilization has crept too far into my wilderness and it’s time to go farther away.
@kayamedic said:
then you have not gone up the many stairs around Raquette Falls
The dreaded stairs at Raquette Falls
I did cart the second half of the trail. Jeff was a die-hard and carried the whole way.
This was a trip from Long Lake to Saranac Village - the rest of the trails were easily cartable. My last portage was Holeb Falls on the Moose River Bow trip. I’ll cart whenever I can, but sometimes it is more bother than it’s worth.
@Sparky961 said:
I’ve seen lots of both - cart trails and bushwacking/mudslogging. One reason I’d not like to see them allowed in remote locations is that while few people tend to abandon their boat, lots of people feel it’s acceptable to abandon their cart when it breaks. I have seen plenty of broken down wheeled contraptions along trails, down in ravines, and half in the water. And yes, I’ve sighted a few boats too, but not near as many.
As far as I’m concerned, if the portage is so flat that a cart can be used, it’s too inviting for the people that probably shouldn’t be there in the first place. This is an indication that civilization has crept too far into my wilderness and it’s time to go farther away.
Jerks are jerks. The same people who purposefully leave a boat/cart behind also leave their camp garbage. They can’t be included in “civilization” with the rest of us(PS-It’s also an indication it’s only “your wilderness” until the next place it happens .