There are high powered pick ups and canoes, as you know.
SOT are the same way. True Surf skis can be not very stable but there are crossovers that are like sea kayaks. Epic and Stellar make them and Others also.
I paddle a Wilderness Systems Tarpon. It is narrow enough to be relatively fast and can carry a lot of gear .And weighs as much as a truck.
I have used it in some rough conditions with no problem.
For hot weather Paddling, a SOT is ideal. I faithfully use sunscreen on my exposed skin.
and I like my RapidFire a pack canoe which allows me to heep camera and lunch dry
Might move to a Shadow. 16 feet and 21 inches wide. It is a canoe
I’m in the Midwest and the guys at the local canoe shop (now long closed) used to say that “canoes are for inland people and kayaks are for coastal people” and while they were mostly kidding there’s some truth in principle since decked boats are better for oceans while canoes are better for portaging and carrying big loads. So kayaks offer some extra safety in big waves plus they are popular because they are easier for beginners to learn to paddle straight. I’m a canoe person for all the reasons you mentioned plus I like to take the dog.
@magooch said:
In general and I know this will cause some comment, but a canoe is a pickup truck and a sea kayak is a sports car.
I would agree with that statement, in very general terms. But I would also maintain that paddling a kayak is more like playing checkers, whereas paddling a canoe is more like playing chess.
c> @pblanc said:
@magooch said:
In general and I know this will cause some comment, but a canoe is a pickup truck and a sea kayak is a sports car.I would agree with that statement, in very general terms. But I would also maintain that paddling a kayak is more like playing checkers, whereas paddling a canoe is more like playing chess.
coming from years of paddling narrow dedicated solo touring (flatwater) I’ve had that discussion many times
Often the questioner has a bath experience with my canoe
They are surprised at the weight difference ( about 60
percent of the kayak weight) and the speed and liveliness of dedicated solo touring boats
Its true in okden days canoes were clunky slow and sometines pretty
To me the difference is you can switch stances in a canoe and a sea kayak ought to fit like leggings
@kayamedic said:
and I like my RapidFire a pack canoe which allows me to heep camera and lunch dryMight move to a Shadow. 16 feet and 21 inches wide. It is a canoe
It is my belief that Joe created the Shadow for one specific reason. That was to win the solo Rec class in the Adirondack 90 mile canoe race, which he does regularly. Even against his earlier customers who purchased slower Rapidfire canoes from him. Now I consider Joe as a friend, but it is a little disheartening to see a train of 5 PB employees in Shadows pull away from everyone else as they draft one another to the win well ahead of all previous customers. The solution, I guess, is to fork over another $3K and join them.
@pblanc said:
@magooch said:
In general and I know this will cause some comment, but a canoe is a pickup truck and a sea kayak is a sports car.I would agree with that statement, in very general terms. But I would also maintain that paddling a kayak is more like playing checkers, whereas paddling a canoe is more like playing chess.
Excellent. I shall have to remember that one when it comes to explaining the learning curve.
@pblanc said:
@magooch said:
In general and I know this will cause some comment, but a canoe is a pickup truck and a sea kayak is a sports car.I would agree with that statement, in very general terms. But I would also maintain that paddling a kayak is more like playing checkers, whereas paddling a canoe is more like playing chess.
Good analogy
@string said:
@pblanc said:
@magooch said:
In general and I know this will cause some comment, but a canoe is a pickup truck and a sea kayak is a sports car.I would agree with that statement, in very general terms. But I would also maintain that paddling a kayak is more like playing checkers, whereas paddling a canoe is more like playing chess.
Good analogy
Not if you really know how to paddle your kayak it isn’t.
@dc9mm said:
@string said:
@pblanc said:
@magooch said:
In general and I know this will cause some comment, but a canoe is a pickup truck and a sea kayak is a sports car.I would agree with that statement, in very general terms. But I would also maintain that paddling a kayak is more like playing checkers, whereas paddling a canoe is more like playing chess.
Good analogy
Not if you really know how to paddle your kayak it isn’t.
The shape of the learning curve is different
It is harder for new canoeists to get from a to b at first. Then they tend to learn at a rapid pace
First time kayakers can blunder a to b fairly easy the first time out
But man nailing the power forward kayak stroke requires Lots Of Water Time!
I appreciate the links to local places to rent and canoe/kayak. As well as the knowledge shared above. I read the California newsletter on Kayaking – several articles in several issues.
Some of you asked what I want to do with the eventual boat…I am thinking of a low-end canoe and low-end kayak:
Here are my uses:
- No coastal waters or intermediate rapids.
- I want to exercise my upper body; have been working out
- Would like to take my somewhat fearful son on some easy trips on Florida rivers and lakes. No work trips with him. He tipped as a young child and has been fearful ever since, and he’s a teenager now, and a rather short one.
- I would like the vessel to be relatively easy to lift and carry = lightweight.
- I plan to do some overnight tripping in groups.
- I would rather not be the guy at the end of the pack unable to keep up. So I’d like a vessel that isn’t a bear to push through the water.
- My wife wants to move to North Carolina or Tennessee eventually, leaving Florida. So a minor consideration is whether the vessel can be used in those rivers waters as the Florida rivers and lakes someday - if it happens.
- Not willing to spend a lot – happy with a low-end.
- Will likely do most paddling alone, although my son has said he will come with me occasionally.
- Don’t like the 70-90 pounds of tandem canoes.
Am contemplating a lightweight solo canoe and a less expensive sit-in kayak for my son. This is due to stability and drier ride of a Sit-In rather than a Sit On (if I have that right). I’m also curious about the low-end kayak craze and would like to paddle a cheap kayak myself now and then. I rented a sit-on in Haiti a while ago and liked the experience. It was almost like a surfboard with a hard,molded seat and even lower end than many of the Pelicans and Sun Dolphins I’m seeing at places like Amazon and Dick’s. But I am favoring a sit-in now (changed my mind from a Sit On in the Opening Post. Would like one with an open stern area for easy gear storage. This is after more research and multiple trips to different stores just to understand construction better.
Hope that answers the questions of people above.
If you are happy with a “low end” kayak or canoe, you are going to get a piece of junk that won’t satisfies your needs or wants.
I live in North Carolina in the summer and south Florida, (the Keys) in the winter and the same canoes and kayaks are good all up and down the east coast and all over this country.
The exception: is I wouldn’t want a SOT in year round cold water
@Canayak It appears you looked at a kayak to understand bulkheads. And the one I listed a link to above also has storage in front.
Now to a couple of your other points -
“Would like to take my somewhat fearful son on some easy trips on Florida rivers and lakes. No work trips with him. He tipped as a young child and has been fearful ever since, and he’s a teenager now, and a rather short one.”
You give yourself a competing set of demands. The shorter the paddler, the happier they will be paddling a skinnier boat. Canoe or kayak, doesn’t matter. Which may also feel less secure.
I don’t know what you have done around water with your son since he was a young child, but tipping over on shallow water like is around you now should be a non-event if he is a confident swimmer. If swimming is the issue, fix that. YMCA has classes for adult non-swimmers as well as barely-swimmers.
“I plan to do some overnight tripping in groups.
I would rather not be the guy at the end of the pack unable to keep up. So I’d like a vessel that isn’t a bear to push through the water.”
Bottom line, you need a skinnier and/or more high end boat for this. A low end rec boat like you are considering IS a bear to push thru the water.
I find myself wondering if you have time paddling a proper solo canoe. They are often quite light, pack canoes can keep up with a lot of kayaks and are generally quite lightweight. Like kayaks you will get a more accessible price by going used, but you should be doing that anyway. One of the reasons I recommended Sweetwater, they have a decent inventor
“My wife wants to move to North Carolina or Tennessee eventually, leaving Florida. So a minor consideration is whether the vessel can be used in those rivers waters as the Florida rivers and lakes someday - if it happens.”
In Tennessee and NC you are stepping into some serious whitewater country. Flat water craft will work on lakes and quiet stretches of river there as well as on flat water in Florida. And nothing you are considering is a good idea in class 3 and up whitewater. That is a whole different specialty. So whatever you get now will move with you. If you think you may want to do WW down the road, it is very easy to get used boats for fairly cheap. WW paddlers tend to turn over boats a lot.
I am limited in posting ( no Internet usually) but don’t assume all tandem canoes are 70-90 lbs
You can find a used Kevlar tandem weighing in at less than 50
you should keep out of the sun when not using esp in FL
Craft arent eapecially limited to location for use
Pack canoes initially came from the Adirondacks but their use is now more widespread
The bigger issue is what can you get your hands on in FL which does not have as wide a selection as say NY or ON
I have to reinforce what Celia said re water fear
Lessons help Also wearing a pfd and just floating in the water to gain confidence
I’m off paddling Fisheating Creek in FL with my packcanoe and camera and hope you find what you are looking for
Don’t be afraid of making a mistake. Boats are resellable.
You might consider hunting used boats .
My experience. I have tolerated rough/wind conditions better in a kayak. Dare say enjoyed This photo on MN North Shore is kayak water. Canoe would have been out of the question
I would enjoy that better from shore.
I always wondered about this. How do you roll a canoe? Looks like the answer is… you convert it to a kayak first.
@Rex I have seen a pair roll up an open tandem canoe in WW from what would be a full capsize by any standards. They were a LOT better canoe paddlers than me.
Hey Celia, I would love to see that. Some real canoe rollers need to post some rolls on the Youtube.
(A buddy and I DID roll a tandem kayak once just to see if we could.)
No videos unfortunately. I think it was on a NY state river but long enough ago you don’t want to quote me on that.