If you have proper outfitting and training canoes can be rolled
You need foot blocks thigh straps and a saddle
However I saw a paddler roll an unoutfitted WildFire once
He locked feet under the seat
Filling an open hull with as much flotation as possible does not turn it into a decked boat like a kayak. Water still gets in. As Kim said, in order to roll any boat, you need to be locked into the hull in some fashion. Otherwise your body movements cannot be transmitted to the hull well enough to make it roll up.
Whitewater canoes are rolled from a kneeling position using a single bladed paddle. Traditional outfitting has been a pedestal with knee pads or cups, and one or more pairs of straps to keep the knees in position. But yes, it is possible to lock the feet under a seat sufficiently to be able to roll an open boat up.
With the more modern, short plastic whitewater canoes shown in Paul Mason’s video, the knee and thigh straps are replaced with a foam bulkhead pedestal. The bulkhead is a foam extension from the front of the pedestal that forms wings that the paddler’s thighs extend beneath. The paddler can brace their thighs beneath the pedestal in a fashion somewhat similar to a kayaker using thigh braces. These boats are often outfitted with additional foam plank glued to the sidewalls in the cockpit area and as much air bag as the hull will hold. The purpose is to limit the volume and weight of water that the canoe can hold when fully soused.
Regardless of the outfitting used, the body mechanics for rolling an open canoe from a kneeling position using a single-bladed paddle are quite different than those used to roll a kayak from a sitting position using a double-bladed paddle. And although having as much of the hull filled with flotation as possible limits the volume of water the hull can hold, which is good, it does not necessarily make it easier to roll as Paul points out in his video. Look how high those boats sit on the water when capsized. That is a whole lot of boat that one has to get their body back over when rolling up. A boat with little or no flotation is often easier to roll up because it sits so low in the water, but rolling becomes a pointless exercise because virtually nothing can be done with the boat after it is rolled up.
There are tons of videos on youtube of paddlers rolling open canoes for those who are interested. Here is one that shows an individual rolling a tandem canoe with minimal flotation and no outfitting besides a seat. Look how easily the boat rolls up because it sits and stays so low in the water:
canoe, kayak, raft, ducky…it’s all good. I’ve rented canoes at Deleon Springs (Garden Springs Run), Rock Springs Run, and Juniper Springs. I’ve rented a sit on top (Charlotte Harbor) and used my own kayaks or canoe as well.
Hey pblanc, Thank you! When I searched I didn’t get that. To clarify; I didn’t actually mean you convert the canoe to a literal kayak. My point was that you have to add so much flotation… taking up cargo space… that it seems more practical to use a couple of bulkheads… and put cargo in that air space. A kayak does that pretty well.
@Rex Friends who have done major camping trips in canoes pack dry bags of stuff, then inflate float bags if they are using them over the top of the dry bags.Pretty much the same thing I do with float bags inside my bow and stern storage in my kayak for day trips on the oceans. Except that they sneak a lot more stuff under the float bags in a tandem canoe.
And if it is a choice between some of their stuff, like the required minimum number of pies, they lose the float bags and take their chances.
They have a lot of fun on these annual trips.
Getting eau off topic herr
You dont have tp add tons of flotation to canoes for lake travel. float bags are required only for river trips
Packing gear in large drybags or barrels ensures gear floats
My total weight including paddles pdd safety gear boat and camping gear cones to under 90 lbs at the start of a trip
65 at the end of two weeks
I do portages. I csn carry all in teo trips
Mainly if you do Canada trips ( portaging) canoe is best
Big water :yak
There is a reason for different types of boats
Its called your environment
An open boat all purpose canoe versus a kayak. Well, a kayak is a fine little vessel. They do one thing and that is carry one person. My canoe on the other hand offers the paddler the option of floating solo or tandem (I own a Buffalo 16’ T-Formex).
There are tandem kayaks.
@Wisen95 said:
An open boat all purpose canoe versus a kayak. Well, a kayak is a fine little vessel. They do one thing and that is carry one person. My canoe on the other hand offers the paddler the option of floating solo or tandem (I own a Buffalo 16’ T-Formex).
A kayak hauling one is not a given.
A Cheasapeake Triple is a kayak that hauls three.
https://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/kayak-kits/tandem-kayaks/chesapeake-triple-kayak-kit.html
roll baby roll!
boy cadence and timing counts in order to avoid serious paddle thwacking!
This thread tired me out…oh wait I paddle a pack canoe in FL.
A lot of these winter threads are almost aerobic reading.
Resident of central Florida, not too far from Orlando.
I prefer a sit in kayak as the heat of sitting in the hull is nothing compared to the radiant heat of the sun. Shade is good.
If you haven’t noticed yet, you soon will find that we have a lot of rain. With the rain we have winds. I find a kayak better suited to wind and rain than a canoe.
Beyond the lovely rivers and spring runs, we have a wonderful coastline and a decent helping of lakes. I prefer a kayak on open waters, it’s easier to handle in the wind.
Largely I think it comes down to what you are physically comfortable in, particularly if you’re older. You can adapt to the rest.
Just my thoughts. If you’d care to join me in some local paddling, I’d be happy to show you some interesting areas, regardless of what craft you choose.
At one time, Mohawk canoes were manufactured in Longwood, FL. I remember seeing lots of pictures of FL canoe trips on their website. Whatever you decide, I would look for something used. If you are patient you will end up with a better boat, and still have money left over for a second boat for your son. You might even find an old Mohawk (Solo 13, Solo 14 or Odyssey).
@raisins said:
… um, I stopped counting at 10Point 65 modular
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnbXYSEcrPc
How long to make a turn?
@Overstreet said:
@raisins said:
… um, I stopped counting at 10Point 65 modular
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnbXYSEcrPcHow long to make a turn?
I would like to see a video of that in four or five foot swells!
Amazingly I haven’t seen it mentioned yet, but for me the deciding factor would be how much paddling do you plan to do in the wind. I have a friend who says there are canoe days and there are kayak days. There is some truth to that, I believe.
I’m in Wisconsin and a canoe guy and, though I have paddled in Florida a little (in a borrowed kayak BTW), I let the choice of boat ride on the wind. There are big waters here also and on a windy day a canoe shows a lot more surface to the wind than a kayak and can get hard to control. It can be done, of course, but it can also get to be a lot like work. Big waves you can learn to handle in a canoe, they’ve been used on big lakes forever, but it can get to be exhausting work and it helps to have the “horsepower” of two (or, like the voyageurs, more) paddlers. I’d think even inland Everglades paddling could get pretty windy, just as big marshes can be around here. Kayaks can mitigate that a lot. Don’t get me wrong - I love canoes dearly - but there is rarely a situation that I face here where I can’t hop between the lee side of islands or hug the lee shore of a river. I think, depending on where in Florida you plan to paddle most, that might be a rarer situation for you.
Just a thought you might want to consider…
@Overstreet said:
@raisins said:
… um, I stopped counting at 10Point 65 modular
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnbXYSEcrPcHow long to make a turn?
Actually it can’t turn. Notice at the end of the assembly the sternman trys to rudder. It didn’t rudder it just flexed left in the middle and the boat hit the dock, again. It was a stunt done by one of those manufactured modular kayaks that piece together. The length of the boat added too much flex to make a practical boat. Note to turn there would have to be a lot of bow rudder.