I have recently upgraded from a Wilderness Systems Tsunami to an NDK Explorer HV and would like to learn to roll. So far, my attempts have predictably met with great embarrassment. I’m far from giving up, but I wonder if basic physics are working against me.
I weigh around 205 (on a good day) and the kayak seems to ride pretty high in the water. So high that I question whether or not it’s physically possible to get my CG high enough to get the kayak back under me.
Am I just being a wuss? Should I add ballast?
Thanks!
1st things 1st
– Last Updated: May-29-07 8:31 PM EST –
Take it from a guy who tried to learn how to roll on his own. Don't try to learn how to roll on your own. It may sound like it could be easy enough but a if you learn from a professional you should should be able to roll your boat in one night.
I spent many a summer afternoon in my sisters pool trying to teach myself how to roll. It was all wasted time. I went to a class at the local ymca and with very little instruction, i was rolling that evening.
You should be able to roll that boat easily if your technique is strong.
rolling
– Last Updated: May-30-07 1:57 AM EST –
Take a class. A pro can show you things you are doing wrong. Vaughn Fulton Afterthought. If you arein North Carolina and want to learn to roll get in touch with me. I have a friend who is a kayak instructor and the best roll teacher i have ever seen.
where are you located?
It isn’t the boat or how high you sit, so don’t worry about that. Find a competent instructor.
Rolling your Explorer HV
"I weigh around 205 (on a good day) and the kayak seems to ride pretty high in the water. So high that I question whether or not it’s physically possible to get my CG high enough to get the kayak back under me."
High enough? To roll easily, you want your COG lower, not higher…laying forward on your front deck as low as you can and flipping over will put your body closer to the surface so that you can initiate your sweep easier - you don’t have to reach so far for the surface.
I learned a screw roll watching instructional rolling videos and a Greenland roll watching Jay Babina’s “First Roll” video. Jay gives easy, step by step progression from the shoreline that makes it alot easier to learn at your own pace.
However, that being said - its a good idea to listen to the other posters and get instruction too. (saves you time)
As to the “upgrade” to the Explorer HV…foam that sucker out good wtih minicell so you get solid purchase with your knees, hips, thighs and don’t fall out. Solid boat contact makes rolling so much easier. First time I tried an Explorer I was told to use the HV model at 6’2" and 200lbs. Man, was that loose!!
Now I use a boat with front deck heights 6" lower than that one and still find room to wiggle and pad with minicell.
Scott
Do Not Add Ballast!!!
I tried to do an assisted rescue with someone who had 50 lbs of ballast in their boat - 25 in the bow and 25 in the stern. Not knowing about this, I tried to empty the boat and couldn’t lift it up onto my cockpit. After I struggled and struggled, he finally told me - I let him him pump the boat after I got him in it.
My weight when I demoed an Explorer HV was around 230, and I found the boat very easy to roll. Take a lesson, it saves a lot of time and a lot of bad habits to unlearn.
Find someone local
Find someone local who rolls.
Rolling NDK Explorer
Agree 100% with suggestion to get help from a instructor or from a knowledgeable roller who has taught others.
A few years ago I was struggling in vein to roll in a pool session. A club member tried to help me learn to roll in the kayak I owned then, but I fell out each time I was upside down- poor thigh bracing in a too wide Keyhole cockpit combined with a clueless roller. He finally suggested I try his Explorer and I came up in a few tries. The Explorer is one of the easiest commercial kayaks to roll. Of course one roll is not mastery, it takes considerablely more practice to roll consistently.
Many beginning sea kayaks find rolling easiest to learn using a Greenland paddle and the layback roll. They can then work on using other paddles and different rolls.
just curious
"I weigh around 205 (on a good day) and the kayak seems to ride pretty high in the water."
Why an HV and not an Explorer? I would have thought the non-HV would have been right for you.
Sounds like…
you should hook up with a few lessons. I may be way off, but from the way you said a couple of things I don’t get the sense that you have gotten a concrete sense of how the lower body has to work. Getting the boat to where it can be under you really isn’t an issue at all if the lower body starts out right, it’s not losing that as you bring your torso up that gets most people (me included). And by far the best way to get the basics like that fixed is to have someone spotting what you are doing right and wrong and providing feedback.
Get help
I struggled on my own for 5 or 6 pool sessions, with help from books and DVDs, then a friend helped me move the paddle through the water in the proper position a couple of times. I was rolling after 15 minutes with his help.
Learning to roll
Find an instructor.
Rolling has very little to do with your weight, your strength, or your kayak. People tend to use these things to explain to themselves why they can’t do it.
It’s tricky to learn, but once you have it down, you will be amazed at how little strength it takes.
Learning to roll
Find an instructor.
Rolling has very little to do with your weight, your strength, or your kayak. People tend to use these things to explain to themselves why they can’t do it.
It’s tricky to learn, but once you have it down, you will be amazed at how little strength it takes.
Hate to say this
Others had also noticed it, but you seem to not quite “get” what rolling is about.
It’s got nothing to do with “getting the boat under you”, which doesn’t work at all. You simply can’t just “push” on the water to get yourself AND the boat upright out of the water, like you would pushing off the ground to get yourself back up. 
So, your “effort” would likely be wasted trying the “wrong” move.
At the minimum, get a couple of rolling videos. Better yet, find an instructor.
(Oh yes, in between those two extreams, you can also try sculling and bracing. You might get an “aha” moment understanding how to get the boat roll upside down and right side up without getting your GC out of the water)
What they said,
geometry doesn’t come into it.
Don’t worry, when you “got” it, you’ll laugh about this stage. 
Get an instructor. For some people, 2-3 nights in a pool are enough, some need more.
btw: the tsunami rolls well tooooo. (nm)
Thanks for the suggestions
Thanks for the suggestions. At some point, I do hope to find an instructor. Until then, I’m going to continue to entertain my friends and family.
As for the comments about it not being about physics, I understand what you mean. I was a competitive swimmer for years and completely understand how important getting the right feel is.
I was really just looking for encouragement and I have received a lot.
Thanks!
"getting the boat under you"
Seems to me that approach works a LOT better than trying to get yourself back up over the kayak!!!
Too many folks start out trying to get themselves up to no avail.
A terminology issue, but words paint pictures, and mental images guide actions…
Many of us are self taught
I am, with videos and on-line info. While I agree instruction can avoid a lot of issues, and potentially be a shortcut - don’t let such advice make you think rolling is complex or difficult - or beyond your grasp on your own. It’s just another stroke/control move. Keep playing and you’ll find it - and then several variations. If you get too serious/frustrated you’ll need professional help to get past this, and it will be harder for them to help you do so.