When people, rather new to the forum, want advice for which new rec kayak to get, they will often get resistance to the rec boat concept. Those newbies will say that the boat will not ever venture into unsafe water, will never get far from shore, and that the rec boat is perfectly acceptable. They will still get resistance to the rec boat concept. Why is that?
I think one of the motivations from the resisters follows from this. Newbie kayakers, of course, need to learn how to kayak, but will also learn where they want to go. This may no longer match their original idea. For even the mildly adventuresome, they will typically venture into unsafe water, will get far from shore, and that the rec boat is not acceptable.
Those newbies who pay attention yet still get the rec kayak will at least be informed that the rec kayak has limits which they must accommodate.
So I think the resisters provide useful information e.g.
get a safe kayak which you can grow into (maybe still not a Nordkapp)
take lessons from someone competent (maybe even before you get the kayak).
I think because of the self-selection inherent in this population (people who read a paddling forum) you might overestimate the percentage of people who are mildly (or more) adventuresome.
There are tons of kayak rental businesses in my area and they are all extremely popular. They only rent rec kayaks, and people go out on a calm lake or cove. Many people go repeatedly, and then eventually decide to buy their own rec kayak (cheaper in the long term than repeated rental fees.) They are totally happy with just paddling around the same couple of lakes or whatever. That is what rec kayaks are for. To go back to the bike analogy, many people have an inexpensive hybrid bike that they love to ride on local bike paths, and have no desire to go long distances or race or tour or climb steep hills. Nothing wrong with that, which I assume was the OP’s point … not that rec kayaks can do everything, but that they are sufficient for many people’s intended use.
Is the OP still around and how does he like his new kayak??
One of the first things a person should ask themselves if they are thinking on getting into kayaking or canoeing, is what do I want to do with the boat. Where do I want to use it. Casual paddling and exploring on small lakes and streams, whitewater, day trip touring, multi day expeditions, fishing, photography, racing, etc. Protected water, big open water, moving water, etc.
A basic lesson is invaluable for any water sport where you will learn at least basic techniques and safety. A good course should definitely give you a good idea as to what type of boat you should consider buying. Consider a course before buying a boat or at least research this aspect first. Whitewater is pretty much a separate area and like racing generally requires specific boats and training if you are serious about it. For fishing, there are many boats that are specific to this activity.
For casual paddling on protected water, almost any boat can be successfully and safely used that way. I’ve explored some creeks with my 18’ boat where I had to back out a quarter of a mile before I could turn around. However, I needed the 18’ boat to get to that creek. As you get into more advanced conditions, you generally need more advanced skills and a boat suitable for these conditions.
While I would support a federal standard for adequate floatation in all canoes and kayaks. a $300 big box store kayak might be the perfect boat for someone, if used in conditions where it can be done safely. It’s good to see people asking for this type of information on this site and others, even if they do not always like the responses they get. At the same time it’s disheartening to see people ask if a boat can be used offshore, on the Great Lakes, or on the Chesapeake Bay when a quick search on the boat manufacturer’s web site, often on the main page for that boat, says that it is definitively not.
As a kid we crossed Lake Erie from Pa to Canada and back in a 16’ fiberglass boat with a 50 HP Merc engine. We didn’t have a plan beyond bringing an extra can of gas. Back then other than oar ships there wasn’t much out there. Now there are radios and guys out there fishing pretty far out. As crazy as that was to do a guy I know decided to walk to Canada with his friend one winter day. They packed a few PB&Js and headed out and they made it.
People abuse or push the limits of everything including rec-kayaks. I’m willing to bet sea kayaks have had their safety factors stretched to their limits also.
This has been my point from my first post there is a range of rec-kayaks and there is a range of what is sensible to try and do with them. No different than canoes IMO. Some guys build saddles into canoes and fill every cubic inch they can with float bags and head out into some crazy places with them. I have a canoe and a higher quality rec-kayak both have enough flotation to at least save the boats. We wear good quality PFDs. We don’t go out in cold water. We don’t do rapids. We boat together or with others 95% of the time. When we do go alone we adjust our expectations. We also carry a variety of other safety measures.
We are going with friends tomorrow they have rec-kayaks. We will do a 12-14 mile stretch of river that’s moving along about 2MPH. There is a feeder creek we might paddle up that’s about 20’ wide and a mile up to a beaver dam. Some spots I can touch both sides with my paddle. We will leave about 10am paddle a couple hours and have lunch on the way tied up under a shade tree unless the Pa State bird the mosquito are too bad.
I know that doesn’t sound too exciting but that’s what we like. We will see whitetail, bank beaver and will pass a couple bald eagle nests. Even turtles sunning and fish jumping. My canoe is overkill but it is what I like and her OT Trip 10 is the perfect rec-kayak for the task.
I’m all in favor of lessons but I can say around here no one gets lessons and if someone did it would be the retired couple not the 13-25 year olds that don’t wear a PDF and don’t give safety a second thought.
I watched 4 young women blow up kayaks and paddle boards the other day and head out into Lake Erie. They never went out more than 100 yards and all had high end PFDs they played around the mouth of our stream for a couple hours and came in. The lake was like glass and at any point they could have been on the beach in a couple minutes. They didn’t seem like they were taking untold risk and they seemed to me to be very much in control of their devices. Our wave action almost always will bring you back in but you might be a ways east of where you want to be.
jyak, somewhere back in this thread, you asked about my children.
The only animal the girls, long since grown women, ever freak about are roaches. We live in the South so I think that’s a bit strange. Roaches are everywhere down here. Snakes they could care less about since I introduced them to many as they were growing up.
(Bike people only) Bud16415. I made several changes. 48/38/28 when new to 46/36/26. I had a 15 year layoff and have to look to see if it’s now 42/32/22. When chain slip started I swapped out running gear, and 21 speed rear to 24 (13/28 rear expanded to 11/32 (I like it, I like it a lot). It changed wheel dish and axle width 135 to142 mm. Expanded and realigned drops. Switch worn chain to a narrow non-Shimano to avoid their damned one time use pins. 36 spoke hubs were no longer available. LX hub came in 32 or 28, so got a 32 hole Mavic. Shop calculates spoke length, upgrade14g for15g butted. Good sales included XT push/pull shifter with side pull X or Z or what they called their rim brakes. Hoo hoo! That setup still shift without noise if you mind the gates. I just got back in the saddle this July. The Specialized hard foam split saddle still hurting my butt for a week. Old bike, but its still dialed in. Anyway, I apologize if I didn’t emphasize going down hill. I found the steepest hill on a side road near a big barn off the NCRR trail at Monkton, 2 mph to climb, 45 mph descend. Pedal in highest gear, 42/11 or probably 46/13 set, through 42 mph, then it just freewheels. Learn to spin 90 rpm and develop enough power to push speed approaching the peak. Then face on the bars, stomach on the seat. For me it was like setting my hair on fire. Best I could do, one time only. I don’t need disc brakes, because I already fell twice trying slip in/out of toe clips, because I felt as weak as a new colt. It reminded me how much it hurts to fall off a bike or a white water kayak. If you doubt the numbers, your a young 'un and don’t remember 1990 bikes. Everything changed.
Hate WW, yet I read a mature guy asking for advice on safely getting into the WW game. If you haven’t read it, that thread is a model of asking for and receiving help. I think he got lined up withing hours and days. He’s probably winking at the upside down fish as he rotates through. They might be crazy, but those WW guys are professionals.
String. That’s crazy. I do hope they followed your passion for kayaking. I bought rec boats and kept them as I moved up so my kids could share my childhood desire to explore waterways. They didn’t. A daughter now lives on a side creek on the Chesapeake near Middle River. I bought my 12 year old granddaughter a 10 or 11 ft Perception kid model. She used it one year, but outgrew it and gave it to her 10 hesr old sister. She now uses my 125 Tsunami, lauded by so many on this forum. After introductory trips, they crossed Middle River with me and their mother on a 5 mile round trip. I found a 140 Tsunami for the 13 yr old to replace the 125. Kayaking is a true gender equalizer. It has less to do with muscle than it does with brain and drive. And they get to drive the sleek fast kayaks. I drive a freighter.
Our son and his wife are into off road cycling and camping with their 2 boys. Our oldest girl enjoys camping and short paddles with her 2 sons.
By camping, they started in tents but both families have modest hard shell campers now.
Are used to be a pretty serious Road cycle list until I busted a knee pretty bad. Now I have a couple of sit on tops which I absolutely love I can take to the lake, I can take to a river, I could take to the bay and I can take to the ocean.
I have seen guys on sit on top kayak paddling around the Channel Islands off of Southern California (pretty dynamic terrain). I never understood gear snobs.
Absolutely prevalent among road cyclists motorcyclists, photographers and kayakers.
IMHO - If it takes us particular type of gear to feed your ego then you’ve got a fragile ego
Use what works for you.
This is a pretty good accounting of the trip. He was a grade ahead of me in school and lived a couple doors down. His name is Craig Latimer. First of a long list of things he did. He is known locally as the Quad Father he started the quad games in Erie.
I feel so ashamed - I came here seeking advice about a river route I’m researching and found this string of posts that tell me my (and my wife’s) recreational kayaks are dangerous, useless POS’s that don’t belong on any body of water bigger than a kiddie pool. Even most of the ‘defense’ arguments here for the rec boats are apologetic and generalize that the buyers of these crafts are all inexperienced nitwits and so are ‘naturally’ likely to get into trouble. What a bunch of elitist garbage! Someone tell me how my ‘recreational’ kayaks are somehow inferior to those specific to white water creeking or long distance open water trekking. Our boats can do limited versions of either - and everything in between. So what wouldn’t be ‘OK’ about buying a ‘rec kayak’. The premise is laughable.
@Unkle Willy I would like to welcome you. When I went to rec boats, I looked hard, because I had been racing kayaks for ten years, I found nothing that appealed to me. I ended up building my own.
The reason I did that was because the companies out there wanted boats that rank beginners could paddle.
That means that their boats have serious shortfalls. They also don’t tell you about them. If you like rec boats and can understand the limitations of them, you are someone I would welcome.
I have met too many people who think a big box boat is good enough for the Gulf of Mexico; they aren’t. Too many people have to get rescued because they didn’t know that the big water they entered at 0800 isn’t the same big water four hours later, or when the tide changes.
I can tell by tour next to the last sentence that you didn’t bother to read anything but the title and that makes me sad because kayaking and canoeing should be a joyful thing, not a tragic thing.
There are different kinds of nitwits in different kinds of boats. I have been a nitwit. . Being a nitwit is not a good thing although it can be fun until it just isn’t anymore. Here’s what to do to avoid being a nitwit.
1.Wear your pfd. If your pfd is uncomfortable then buy a better pfd, but just wear it.
2. Self rescue in the environment that you’re paddling in, or at the very least, paddle with folks that can effectively assist you.
If you can do those two things then you are definately NOT a nitwit. If you’ve never capsized then you;ve yet to reach your full nitwit potential.
If you’re offended by these comments then take your indignation to your preferred paddling environment and self rescue (roll or swim your boat to shore). If you are unable to self rescue, then there is the possibility that you could become a dead nitwit.
If you are successful at getting yourself and your boat safely to shore, then you have become enlightened and can pontificate about the value of drysuits.
I am sorry that you hit these threads. Most of which have been started by one person out of everyone here, that one person having been all over the place in talking about what they needed or wanted.
If you are seeking information that might be helpful, it would advance things to talk about what trip and what boats. Your post says your boats can do limited versions of either. What is not known is how much white or large open stuff is involved in your intended trip. For example, the Hudson River goes from being a smaller WW river further to a wide, sea kayak body of water as it goes from the mountains to the sea.
If you truly want suggestions and opinions, I would suggest starting a new topic as this one is all over the place with a lot of posts that are less tan useful.